| Author |
Message |
    
john wright
Sergeant
Username: Ohnjay
Post Number: 15
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 2:52 pm: | 
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Hello Everybody,
I'm new to this casebook site and I've posted a few questions on different threads, I don't know the full facts of the ripper murders just what I've read and heard down the years, most of which I see from reading these posts is wrong.
I've ordered the book " A to Z" by Paul Begg and while I'm waiting for it to arrive I have acquired 2 books on the ripper "The Ultimate Jack the Ripper" by Stewart Evans & Keith Skinner also "The Complete History of Jack the Ripper" by Phillip Sugden. The advice I require is, are these books worth reading for the true facts or are they a bit iffy.
john |
David O'Flaherty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 1097
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 3:12 pm: |
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Hi John,
Welcome to Casebook. Man, I guess it must take decades to know the full facts, if that's even possible. There's just so much to learn. I think you'll find that you've made some great choices and that you will find them worthwhile not only to read once, but that they'll give you great service as reference books for years to come. You will have to let us know what you think of them.
Dave |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1515
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 4:09 pm: |
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Welcome John,
David is right it takes years to fully understand the ins and outs of this case, even when one is armed with every conceivable fact it is still impossible to fathom out all the truth from the fiction.
However your choice of books is a great start, this wonderful site is even better for it contains every fact and every speculation one can ever imagine, my advice to you is just enjoy your experiences that you will experience, search through the engine , and press sections and make your own mind up in which way you want to advance towards the truth .
Regards Richard. |
john wright
Sergeant
Username: Ohnjay
Post Number: 16
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 5:03 pm: |
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David & Richard,
Thanks for the welcome and the advice. I've read a few of the threads and i must admit there is so many different aspects to the events that I would never have considered them by myself.
I'm glad I've picked the right books, so i better get started and read them, thank you both once again for your advice.
john |
David O'Flaherty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 1098
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 5:20 pm: |
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Hi John,
Yeah, those books will give you a terrific foundation, particularly if you decide to read further--you'll be able to pick out the iffy stuff better. I also recommend "Letters from Hell", also by Evans and Skinner.
Not too long ago, Paul Begg once gave me some terrific advice, which is to read everything, even the books I think might not be so good--just absorb all you can. There's a guy around here, Tom Westcott, who I think must be one of the most well-read people around here. He seems to have devoured just about everything to do with the Ripper; as a result he has a terrific knowledge not just of the Ripper in 1888, but of Ripperology, a field that's just about as interesting as the crimes themselves.
Not that I always agree with Tom, but I do really admire that about him, and it's something I'd like to emulate.
Dave |
john wright
Sergeant
Username: Ohnjay
Post Number: 17
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 6:24 pm: |
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Hi dave,
I read Knights book when it first came out in the 70s, I thought that it was put together well and the facts seemed to run into each other smoothly, BUT when I had finished the book I realised that with so many people allegedly involved it would not have remained secret for 100+ years , someone would have spoken out.
I have seen some of Toms posts here and on another forum and as you say he has a lot of knowledge of the subject.
john |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5221
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 5:45 am: |
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Hi John
Welcome, and best of luck with your reading.
One of the main problems is retaining in one's head and distingtuishing between what's proven, what's interpretation, what's speculation....after a while they can sort of merge in the memory.
For instance, as I think Dave will tell you, we still don't know the source for Eddowes's celebrated fire engine imitation.
Robert |
Scott Nelson
Inspector
Username: Snelson
Post Number: 157
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 4:17 pm: |
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(Tom Wescott).."has a terrific knowledge not just of the Ripper in 1888, but of Ripperology."
Get out of town. Wescott is nothing but a pretender. |
David O'Flaherty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 1099
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 4:26 pm: |
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Scott,
I'm sorry I mentioned him, if it's going to start yet another flame war. |
Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 3115
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 4:28 pm: |
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Yo Dave,
i wouldn't worry, alls you've done is made Scott upset because you didn't say he was the greatest
Jenni
"Things are getting strange, I'm starting to worry, This could be a case for Mulder and Scully"
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David O'Flaherty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 1100
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 4:56 pm: |
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Hi Jenni,
In my opinion, Stewart Evans is the greatest, but from what articles of his I've read, and from his posts here, Scott Nelson is another of those people who has really spent a lot of time reading and studying.
Sorry I misspelled your name, Tom.
Dave |
David Radka
Detective Sergeant
Username: Dradka
Post Number: 51
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 4:41 pm: |
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Mr. Nelson wrote: "Wescott is nothing but a pretender."
>>I entirely agree.
(Message edited by Dradka on November 05, 2005)
David M. Radka
Author: "Alternative Ripperology: Questioning the Whitechapel Murders"
Casebook Dissertations Section
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Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 3134
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 4:50 pm: |
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yo yo yo
nothing to see here
(Message edited by jdpegg on November 05, 2005)
"Things are getting strange, I'm starting to worry, This could be a case for Mulder and Scully"
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Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1660
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 9:54 am: |
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Hi all
I'd like to think we can all make our contribution to the case, even if in smaller or larger degree. I think that is a healthier attitude than saying who is the better researcher.
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
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David O'Flaherty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 1106
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 2:59 pm: |
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No worries. In the future, I will save my varied appreciations for the obituary page.
Nobody loves you when you're old and grey
Nobody needs you when you're upside down
Everybody's hollerin' 'bout their own birthday
Everybody loves you when you're six foot in the ground.
John Lennon |
David O'Flaherty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 1110
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 12:41 am: |
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Ewww. . .my last post reads back kind of dark and creepy. Just to clarify, I meant that it's too bad one can't express a little admiration once in awhile, particularly in this poisonous atmosphere we've been enjoying of late. It seems the only time you can do it without someone complaining is when there's an obituary involved.
Dave |
Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 3150
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 3:48 pm: |
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You would probably have got away with it Dave!!
"You know I'm not gonna diss you on the Internet
Cause my mamma taught me better than that."
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5245
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 4:20 pm: |
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If someone wrote my obituary, I'd complain. 
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2791
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 5:48 pm: |
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Fair but foul if you run across a storm
a sail that would set in any kind of storm
a ship that was never in harbour
but out on the sea
dancing with the waves
no port in no storm
I'll find my own harbour.
No tug required.
That's your obit, Robert.
Now complain. |
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 864
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 7:28 pm: |
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I would recommend any book that had a picture in it of James Maybrick stabbing a cabbage in the dark. Jane Coram will have no peace until she has satiated this need I have to see it. It has been on-going for quite some time now.
John - I would also recommend Don Rumbelow's COMPLETE JACK THE RIPPER and I have a personal fondness for John Eddleston's JACK THE RIPPER : AN ENCYCLOPAEDIA.
Others highly spoken of include Arthur Douglas' WILL THE REAL JACK THE RIPPER?, Tom Cullen's WHEN LONDON WALKED IN TERROR (aka AUTUMN OF TERROR) and Robin Odell's JACK THE RIPPER IN FACT AND FICTION.
Then we get to the fringes and you can do far worse than tracking down any of Neal Sheldon's books or Chris Scott's or John Smithkey III's books on MJK, or indeed - an absolute MUST - the new Robert McLaughlin book THE FIRST JACK THE RIPPER PHOTOGRAPHS.
I could go on. But I won't.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Phil Hill
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Phil
Post Number: 1012
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 2:13 am: |
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Philip - can I add Leonard Matters' 1929 book to your list. It is the only one I know that gives a feel of the sites before the war changed everything. A good read too - just take "Dr Stanley" with a pinch of salt.
As in many subjects, the books say more (or as much) about the time when they are written than
or as they do about the Ripper. To me it is no coincidence that Knight wrote immediately after Watergate had made revealed Government conspiracies.
Before that there seemed to be an obsession among many writers with "toffs" as suspects - especially doctors. More recently, we have seen the common man/the unknown have the finger pointed at him - perhaps reflecting our more egalitarian period.
One wonders what is to come.
Phil
Phil |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5246
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 2:49 am: |
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Thanks for that, AP.
Robert |
David Radka
Detective Sergeant
Username: Dradka
Post Number: 53
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 7:05 pm: |
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Mr. Wright wrote: “Hello Everybody, I'm new to this casebook site and I've posted a few questions on different threads, I don't know the full facts of the ripper murders just what I've read and heard down the years, most of which I see from reading these posts is wrong. I've ordered the book " A to Z" by Paul Begg and while I'm waiting for it to arrive I have acquired 2 books on the ripper "The Ultimate Jack the Ripper" by Stewart Evans & Keith Skinner also "The Complete History of Jack the Ripper" by Phillip Sugden. The advice I require is, are these books worth reading for the true facts or are they a bit iffy.”
>>Ripperology exists only because it is iffy, John. The reason why you’re here is because you like iffy, because the iffy modality sharpens your senses, if you are a rational thinker and know what you’re doing. If you don’t like iffy, take up glider modeling, cat breeding, or something like that. Since you are asking about those books to perhaps beware of, let me give you a précis of who and what you really ought to be worried about in this field. They are the ones who can’t handle the iffy, subjunctive thinking. The ones who don’t comprehend what the future passive voice (used in the graffitus) amounts to, and can’t think in or account for it. You will often find them defending skepticism, British empiricism, the homogenization implicit in the British educational system, and the scientific method. They are the deconstructers, debunkers, and chandala, the ones who want to see you sent back to the drawing board because they wouldn’t know a diamond if they held it in their hand.
David M. Radka
Author: "Alternative Ripperology: Questioning the Whitechapel Murders"
Casebook Dissertations Section
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Nicholas Smith
Detective Sergeant
Username: Diddles
Post Number: 144
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 10:14 am: |
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G'day Dave, it's been a while since we've remonstrated on these boards, but fair dinkum mate, d'ya reckon you could talk in plain English? or Australian?
Geez, John was just asking a simple question and didn't need a dictionary answer.
Let's help the bloke out as much as we can.
Jules |
Jane Coram
Chief Inspector
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 639
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 10:43 am: |
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Hi David,
I started to read your response to John and have to agree with Jules. 
I saw my dictionary starting to edge towards the door in terror, because it knew it would be dogeared by the time I had finished. I have a reasonably good mastery language, but I basically just didn't have the stamina to read it . . . it was just too much like hard work although I do like the word iffy . . . If people can't understand your advice, there isn't much point in giving it. No offense intended.......but you do confound a lot of people.....including me.
Hi John,
Basically John, you do need to be a bit careful about which books you read until you have a bit of a grounding in the case.....because some authors have the ability to make the impossible sound like absolute fact and someone who hasn't found out better could be sucked in. (Sorry, I re-read that and it sounded as if I was implying you were thick.......  I was just speaking generally there......honest)
A good example of this might be Patricia Cornwell's book. A friend of mine who is not at all stupid, read it and thought it sounded very plausible, because there was a lot of scientific jargon in there and she was literally blinded by science.
Unfortunately books like that are aimed at the layman generally, so the poor reader doesn't stand much chance.
Books that you can rely on are those by people like Evans, Skinner, and Sugden...to name a few.....but you've been given some good advice earlier on in this thread anyway.....I suppose one bit of advice might be to read the most recent books published by these respected researchers first as information and research is always being revised as new evidence is unearthed.
But as David said.......and joking aside his post did hold a great deal of truth......there are many books out there that are a bit iffy.......and it really is very often a lucky dip when you pick one up.
I would suggest too, if you have the cash to subscribe to Ripperologist and Ripper Notes magazines, because they do contain articles which are the sort of stuff you don't get in books often.....odd articles that really do explore the case in every possible way. Always very good reads.
Happy reading,
Hugs
Janie
xxxx
(Message edited by jcoram on November 20, 2005) |
Jane Coram
Chief Inspector
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 640
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 10:47 am: |
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HI Hutch,
I'm going to have to give in aren't I? I will do your pic of Maybrick slaughtering a Savoy cabbage at the first opportunity.....just to shut you up. 
Maybe Dan could use it as the next cover of Ripper Notes.
Love you bunches
Janie
xxxx |
Dan Norder
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 1011
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 1:44 pm: |
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Hi Jane,
Is that a purple cabbage? We could have a fruit and vegies theme for the cover. LOL.
Hi John,
In addition to the excellent recommendations above, you can't go wrong by picking up Evans and Skinner's Jack the Ripper: Letters from Hell, which focuses on the messages the police and others got about the crimes. It's visually stunning -- with a number of full color interior illustrations -- and ends up hitting a lot of interesting and important aspects of the case.
Dan Norder, Editor
Ripper Notes: The International Journal for Ripper Studies
 Profile  Email  Dissertations  Website
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3287
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 4:28 am: |
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AND Tom Cullen's 'Autumn of Terror,not necessarily the most accurate but a beautifully written book.
Suzi |
john wright
Sergeant
Username: Ohnjay
Post Number: 20
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 2:59 pm: |
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The list is to long to you name you all individually but thank you for your sensible advice and comments.
I enjoyed the hug.
John
RULE BRITANNIA |
Bob Hinton
Inspector
Username: Bobhinton
Post Number: 424
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 9:45 am: |
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Hi,
David Radka seems to be extremely interested in the Ripper case, and obviously has some ideas that he would like to share with others. It is a shame therefore that he finds it so obviously difficult to communicate clearly.
Writing so as to be easily understood is quite tricky and requires a lot of polish and practice. It is a shame that most of his remarks are so unintelligible – it reminds me of Leonard Sachs who used to compere ‘The Good Old Days’ (overseas readers will have to ask a British colleague to explain).
The only suggestion I can make is that David gets himself a good textbook on essay writing (perhaps his local school can help) and get practising.
Use as your guide the words of a famous British man of letters, Winston Churchill. During the war as Prime Minister he was constantly getting bombarded with reams of paper containing nothing more than pretentious twaddle. In the end he had a memo printed it read:
“Kindly let me have a full report,on one side of a sheet of foolscap, giving me all the details.”
Good luck, and I’m sure we all look forward to reading, and understanding, your future postings!
Bob Hinton |
Perplexed
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 5:25 am: |
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What the hell is 'graffitus'??? I's not in my dictionary. |
Donald Souden
Chief Inspector
Username: Supe
Post Number: 856
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 2:28 pm: |
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Perplexed,
Graffitus would seem to be an attempt to make an Italian word graffito/graffiti, the diminutive of graffio (a scratching), into a Latin masculine singular form. Whether this is done from whimsey or something else I couldn't say.
Don.
"He was so bad at foreign languages he needed subtitles to watch Marcel Marceau."
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3294
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 4:48 pm: |
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Bob
'FOR YOUR DEFEACATION AND DELIGHT'!!! SPRINGS TO MIND!!!!!
Good old Leonard!!! PS have emailed you the Mrs M pix!
Suzi x |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3295
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 4:57 pm: |
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Mr Radka -
'ALTERNATIVE RIPPEROLOGY:QUESTIONING THE WHITECHAPEL MURDERS'
Can you explain the signature..... just as a starter!????
Suzi |
David Radka
Detective Sergeant
Username: Dradka
Post Number: 62
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 6:10 pm: |
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If its good enough for Mr. F, its good enough for little DM.
David M. Radka
Author: "Alternative Ripperology: Questioning the Whitechapel Murders"
Casebook Dissertations Section
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Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2354
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 3:22 am: |
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Hi Bob,
I also liked Churchill's apology for making a long speech - he said he didn't have enough time to prepare a short one.
I think there's a valuable lesson there.
Love,
Caz
X |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3296
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 3:24 am: |
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'Errr..............is it just me????
Suzi |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3298
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 4:04 am: |
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"Off you go,madman, and hurry across the horrible
Alps,
duly to delight schoolboys and become a subject for practising speech-making"
-
Juvenal A.D.c.60 - c.130
Suzi x |
Bob Hinton
Inspector
Username: Bobhinton
Post Number: 425
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 4:20 am: |
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Dear Caz,
Love the anecdote. I once asked a very successful after dinner speaker the secret of his success.
He said ‘In one word - preparation. It takes a long time to say a little. For every minute of speech my preparation time is about one hour’
I now realise why this man commands £5,000 per engagement.
Bob |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3307
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 3:11 pm: |
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Bob - (!)
Cheap at the price I say!!!!!..
OK, Bob going to give us a clue!!!!
...Spending a lot of time on the Mugwamps- David B. Hill thread here ...GOTCHA !!....I know this is the man!!!
(Seems the email prob isnt my end am working on it! )
Suzi x |
Thomas C. Wescott
Inspector
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 459
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 10:46 pm: |
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David,
You rule. I only just now read your earlier post where you said some really nice things about me. That was very generous of you, particularly since I haven't written a post on this site worth reading in about 2 years. Not that I don't have anything to say, just waiting for a discussion worth having. Nawmean? Mainly I just hang out here cuz I'm in love with Scott Nelson.
Scott,
You're right, I am a pretender. I'm kidding myself for thinking I'll ever have you. Your heart is for MENSA qualifier, David Radka, only. I know that now and am coming to terms with it. And when people tell you you're just Radka's mini-me, minus the tripod capability - and believe me, they will tell you that - just tell 'em Tom says it ain't so!
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott
P.S. Dan Norder is MY minion. Word. |
Thomas C. Wescott
Inspector
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 460
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 11:07 pm: |
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By the way, just to clarify, the first portion of the above post was directed towards David O'Flaherty - a man of impeccable taste. Thankfully, saying nice things about me is not yet a TOS violation on here.
John Wright,
If you're still around these boards, thanks also for the kind words.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Lindsey C Hollifield
Chief Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 535
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 1:23 am: |
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since I haven't written a post on this site worth reading in about 2 years.
Pardon?
Dunno where you've been for the past two years, Tom..
Love,
Lyn x
My first reaction is, "OMG that's crazy". But then I'm thinking this just may be crazy enough to work.
copyright © Bradley McGinnis Sept. 2005
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