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Phil Hill
Sergeant
Username: Phil

Post Number: 43
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 5:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't know whether there is another thread on this subject (I looked and couldn't see anything relevant) but I thought some of you might be amused by the way I got interested in JtR.

In my home town there was, in the 50s and 60s (long gone now to make way for a store) a cinema that showed double bills of "B" movies and re-runs. It changed the bill mid-week. Sunday-Wednesday was more adult fare (Hammer horrors etc) with the second half of the week usually adventure, kids stuff - Tarzan movies, sword and sandal epics etc (the sort of stuff I loved).

About 1962 (I think) I went alone to see a film as I often did on a Saturday - it's amazing looking back how safe I felt - and up came the trailers for next week.

One of these was for what I now know to be the 1958/59 UK film "Jack the Ripper". It was in black and white, and the trailer had many shots of a figure in a top hat, opera cape and carrying a black medical bag, walking on wet cobbles. I still shudder at the image!!

The film was a version of Leonard Matters' Dr Stanley theory. the creepy voice kept asking girls "Are you Mary Kelly" then killed them. I was terrified - this image was just too emotive.

Looking back, I can see why the image struck me as it did. And this is why I say the story might amuse you. In my childish mind, I had conflated the image on the screen with two other things. It was the mixture of the three and the implications that frightened me.

Anyone in the UK remember Sandeman's port? Their symbol at that time was a silhouette of a tall Spanish gentlemen in a long cloak and with a broad brimmed Spanish hat. In some ways very very similar to the image of JtR in the trailer.

At school, we sang a song about the "Sandman" who came at night to put children to sleep.

In my over-imaginative mind, I had put together, the Sandman, the caped figure and JtR to create a monster who killed children!! This was not helped by the fact that, when questioned, my parents knew little about the case except that it had never been solved and no one was caught.

I worked out that Jack in 1962 might still be alive, though aged around 100!!! he might be coming for ME!!

After that, I read anything i could on JtR - not much available to me. I think TV Times must have covered the Dan Farson programmes and had a feature, because I clearly recall learning more than ever before from that source. Including hints that Jack had been almost phantom-like. the was a classic mis-quote (as I now realise) about someone being on their doorstep, going indoors, and when they came out tjhere was a body on the step!! That's how I recall it anyway - it fuelled my insecurity.

I bought MacCormack's book when published in paperback (I still have it) but could make nothing of Dr Pedachenko at all. I also bought Cullen's. But my nightmares continued.

Eventually, in 1972/3 at university, with a major copyright library to consult, I decided to confront my fears head on. I was 22 by now. One day, I went in and ordered all the books i could easily find in the catalogue - I think I called for Stewart, Odell, Matters and probably MacCormack. I started in to try to find out whether there was a concensus on who JtR might have been. I still have my notes somewhere.

I recall following the clue of the "jolly bonnet" and drawing maps of Mitre Square.

Of course, I got no closer to Jack's identity - though I became a Druittist for many years. I never had another nightmare about "Jack", but from that day, the mystery and the "game" of Jack, hooked me.

I say a "game" because at that time the aim of most writers seemed to be to guess (from other sources) what the name on the then unreleased police files would be. It always seemed to be assumed that the police knew but could not convict (based on Anderson, I think).

Since then I have tried to keep up with the literature as best I could, and have amassed a reasonably comprehensive library on the subject. When I went to London to work in 1975, I lived for a while in Hackney and one of my first acts was to make a trip to the murder sites as they then existed. Hanbury St and Miller's court were long gone. But Buck's Row (Durward St by then) still had atmosphere - the cottages had gone, but Essex Wharf was intact and I assumed the road surface was unchanged. Mitre Square was (as i recall) still relatively unimproved with wharehouses and retained much atmosphere. Alas i did not then possess a camera.

So there you have it, my own weird tale. It might help you to know me a little better.

Does anyone else have stories about how they got into Ripperology they might like to share.

Sincerely,

Phil
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Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn

Post Number: 1272
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 12:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Phil,
MY Intrest in crime, started in 1954 at the tender age of 7 years, my father had a newsagents in Reigate surrey, and i started reading the headlines on the nationals, Ruth Ellis took my intrest , it was a remarkable story and even at that age fascinated me, the fact that my mother died that year, and this woman was to die also had a impact on me.
My intrest in the ripper came in 1957, when my grandmother who was born in 1879, told me about what life was like in her childhood, she mentioned the London Boggie man that she and her sisters were scared of, and her father used to get them of the streets by saying ' Come in girls that man may be out there'
So it all started from there, i read all the books i could obtain [ not many] and it was only when i left school that i became proberly over obsessed with the crimes of Jack. since then I have gathered a mass of information, i have had many theorys, have written what i considered good articles for national newspapers , and received countless reject letters.
I am a person who is loyal to a suspect , until something comes along to alter that opinion, but in the case of the mysterious Joseph Barnett i find him the most likely person to have committed these murders.
Regards Richard.
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Phil Hill
Sergeant
Username: Phil

Post Number: 50
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 1:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Richard - very interesting. Shame you couldn't have visited some of the murder scenes in the 50s. I rather envy Farson, Colin Wilson and others who back in the 50s and early 60s could have seen the Whitechapel/Spitalfields area when, bomb damage apart it was little changed from 1888. Even in 1976 I was really too late, although I was pleased to see Buck's Row before it was modernised.

If I could obtain a time machine, and could not go back to 1888, I would love to have walked the streets with Leonard Matters and seen Miller's court on its last day.

Last time I went, in the early 90s I was almost heartbroken. It seemed the whole area was being changed out of all recognition.

As I mentioned in the first post, I was a Druittist for some time, then for a while Knight held my attention. I had no way of knowing how false his arguments - about Juwes and Annie Crook etc were, and he seemed to bring some strands together. It followed logically from the Barlow/Watt series on BBC (which I still recall with admiration). However, as my annotations in my copy of the book show, I did question Knight's context and wider historical interpretation of the times.

I think my strong feelings on the whole conspiracy theory spring from my disappointment over being misled and betrayed by Knight. I have neither the time nor the talent to understake my own research as do many respected posters here, and people like me are totally reliant on the honesty and accuracy of those who do publish.

That was why the Diary so annoyed and annoys me. I feel instinctively that it is not right (I almost wrote not kosher which might be more appropriate) and I feel it has done ripper-studies no good at all. If eventually found to be a forgery - of whatever date - I think it will do even more harm.

In 1988, Martin Fido's book made me think very hard about local, ordinary, East Enders, and I suppose I am now pretty convinced JtR was a Kosminski/Cohen/Kaminski type of man. This feeling was reinforced by the Swanson Marginalia.

In the 80s I thought Ripper-studies were really coming on with the emergence of a new breed and generation of scholars and ethusiasts - first Rumbelow, then Fido, Begg, Evans, Skinner, Harrison, Howells etc. But I have since been a little disillusioned that these have effectively gained a sort of clique/monopoly on the presentational side of the subject, in their collaborations and media appearances. I don't begrudge this, but I fear for the reputation of the subject when a professional group appear to have a grip. Let me say at once, that I admire and respect all the authors mentioned as individuals.

I think we have moved a long way from the days of MacCormack and Farson, but more is needed if the subject is to be taken seriously. I cite the parallel of the Richard III Society and the way their efforts have actually boosted the whole of C15th historical studies and made it a respectable academic study over the past 30 years.

I also welcome wholeheatedly the various Ripper journals/fanzines that have come into being.

I'm afraid that we'll have to differ on Barnett - I just don't think that Abberline and others who saw and spoke to him, could have been so wrong. I have seen no actual evidence - though much argument - of even his potential guilt.

Let me end by saying again that I think Casebook is a wonderful innovation, and the quality of some of the research and work (I think of Jane's site reconstructions) outstanding.

I am also in awe Richard, of your enthusiasm and knowledge. We may not agree, but you have my respect.

Sincerely,

Phil
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Maria Giordano
Inspector
Username: Mariag

Post Number: 313
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 12:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For what its worth,here's my sad tale:

Some time in the mid 70's I had graduated college with a BA in English which at that time together with a quarter could get you a cup of coffee. Things are worse now,I understand. I was happily collecting unemployment insurance from my Christmas season job and enjoying my free ride when I overheard the librarian in our local small town library bemoaning the fact that she couldn't find anyone to take over the job for her since she needed to quit to take care of her aging father. As my time on the dole was about to run out, I voluntered to have a go at it and the rest is history.

At some point shortly afterward, Cullen's book AUTUMN OF TERROR literally fell into my hands. It was passing through my place on the way to somewhere else and I was intrigued.I guess I've always been fascinated by what we used to call "psychology of deviance" and I can't stand an unsolved mystery. Had I but known!

I kept ordering that book on inter library loan over and over. Back then it was hard to get info about the case, and I guess I had no choice to be a confirmed Druittist. For my sins, I now try to defend his name as much as possible (while still leaving a teeny tiny bit of room for suspicion).

I remember being fascinated by Knight,but not believing it. It did, however, lead to a renewed interest in mythology, folklore, the Freemasons and all that so I'm grateful. I was awestruck by Rumbelow and I remember the first time I saw the Kelly photo--it really brought home to me that all this stuff was REAL.

I renewed my interest in the case from time to time but it was finding the Casebook that really started me off on my deep interest. I lurked on this site for a long time before the Big Crash then officially joined almost a year ago. For a librarian I don't own many books, but I have a decent Ripper collection, just the basics, nothing flashy.

I find I can't be true to any man---as a suspect. If pressed I'd say that of the named suspects I favor the Cohen/kosminski/Kaminski story.Arbie LaBruckman had my attention for a while and I've lately been very interesed in AP's Cutbush theory,especially the Leviticus connection, which appeals to my dramatic sense.I'm sure that at the famous Pearly Gates it will be "Unknown Local Guy" though.

I still can't stand the tought of never knowing for sure.

And let me add that the Casebook is the greatest inventiion since sliced bread.
Mags
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Lindsey Millar
Inspector
Username: Lindsey

Post Number: 272
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 8:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Very interesting story, Mags!

Okay, guys.. (just lighting a cigarette in preparation for a long haul...)

My Ripper roots sorta begin with my mother, when I was fifteen. I'd just spent the day in London at Madame Tussaud's, where, in the Chamber of Horrors I saw a copy of the Dear Boss letter (I think - it was a very long time ago..). Back home that evening there was, rather coincidentally, a film about Jack the Ripper. Not sure now whether it was the Michael Caine one (this was 1975), but it caught my attention, and it was then that my mother told me of the Conspiracy theory. Tweaked my interest somewhat, but having listened to my mum, I was quite convinced that the mystery had been solved with the Royal connection. (I did also ask my grandmother, born in 1895, who she thought the Ripper was, and she quite addamantly said, "he was a foreigner. No English man would commit those murders".) So, anyway, I put the Ripper on the back-burner for many years.

It was in 1997, shortly after my mother's death that I came across a signed Rumbelow for $1 in a used book store (I later sold that book for $25, proceeds going to Casebook Productions). I bought it sorta out of memory of my mother. I read and re-read that book countless times before I flogged it. I was hooked! Did an online search for information on Jack, and came across the Casebook - have been here ever since! I've lost count of how many message boards we've had in that time.

Since 1997 I have met countless friends here, for which I am thankful beyond words. I count my Ripper friends as my closest.

Well, that's my story.
"When a man grows tired of London, he grows tired of life" (or summat like that)
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Donald Souden
Inspector
Username: Supe

Post Number: 430
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 10:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Phil and all,

An interesting thread, no question, and I'll gladly share my story. My dad was a research scientist but one of his avocations was reading (especially mystery fiction) and he amassed a large collection of books. He unfortunately died while I was quite young, but my siblings and I were left with his many books -- many of which I am still discovering.

So, I probably came by my reading tastes naturally and after moving through the Hardy Boys around eight or nine I started sampling my dad's collection. I may have mentioned before that among his finds at the book sales he haunted was a set of old Strand magazines so I had the great thrill of first reading about Sherlock Holmes in the original magazines.

Somewhere along the way I know I became aware of Jack, but I do remember my first real acquaintance with Saucy Jack came when I was 11 or 12. I was stuck at a relative's home for a rainy summer weekend and since I couldn't be outside playing ball I found solace exploring the attic and found a whole pile of dusty old True magazines and among them was an issue from the 50s that had an article about Jack the Ripper. Naturally, it grabbed my interest and loving all sorts of mysteries and challenges, the fact that Jack's identity was never discovered caught my attention. Then, though, it simply shared space in my mind along with the Borden murders, Judge Crater's disappearance, the Hall-Mills murders and all the other unsolved crimes I read about.

Of course, in time a lot of other passions, like sports, women, cars, women, college, women, career paths and women, all vied for my attention but mysteries -- real and fictional -- remained an interest.

Like many others, it was Donald Rumbelow's book that rekindled my interest in Jack and since then I have read as much as I could on the subject. Finally, there was the fatal day I stumbled across Casebook.org.

I should also add that Jack provided one of the greatest scares of my life. It was late at night, I was in my bedroom in our Victorian home's spooky third-floor tower room and reading about the Kelly mutilations in one or another Ripper book I'd found. I should also add I was an impressionable late-teen at the time. Anyway, I couldn't put the book down but I also knew it was long past bedtime so I sneaked a peek at my clock

And when I did I noticed the sweep hand was running backwards!! My immediate frightened thought was I fallen into the "Twilight Zone" and that time was running backward. I steeled myself to look again and then realized the sweep hand was loose on its hub and as the shaft turned it would catch the hand at the 6 and bring it forward until, around the 10, gravity would inexorably pull it down again to the 6. But, for those few brief seconds that I first saw it moving backwards I truly thought I'd been sucked into a time warp.

Alas, modern devices like digital clocks have once more beggared the realm of imagination and my young nephew will never know the sort of fear and exhiliration I felt when time ran backwards.

Don.
"He was so bad at foreign languages he needed subtitles to watch Marcel Marceau."
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Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana

Post Number: 513
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 10:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I always enjoyed mysteries. I started with Nancy Drew in the second grade and graduated to Agatha Christie after that. I had heard of JTR all my life, but didn't pay much attention till the Michael Caine movie in 1988 and the very next day the Douglas profile. That was what got me hooked.
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Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg

Post Number: 1795
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 5:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You know you're getting me thinking on this thread.
I've been puzzling for a few moments about how i came accross the casebook. and the truth is, i don't know. something tells me i probably put Robert Lees in google, but that can't be right.

And now a lesson about libraries. i can't quite remember how it all started. but i once saw that JTR film with babra windsor in. i can't have been that old because it was scary (and let's face it i don't think i'd find it scary today!)
I saw a book about JTR in the library. It was Sugden. Sugden would have been a great place to start but that's the thing about me and libraries i can be very indecisive and even then i probably already had the full amount of books out. And anyway the film with Babs in i'm pretty certtain was followed by a programme about Tumbelty (that should date it late ninties) so i was looking for a tumbelty book! I divert. It wasn't for a while I don't imagine that I eventually got back on track with my ripper fasination, thanks to the joys of library displays and a copy of the mammoth JTR. If a book with so many theories in isn't enough to get you interested i don't know what is. And the thing about me and books is, i like buying them, and so a strange collection of Ripper books appeared, Stepehn Knights, A-z and mamouth i'm sure they were my first.

And in this life one thing leads to another RJL is in all of those books and he's from these parts. like i say i'm pretty sure it must have been typing his name in a search engine that led to the casebook, but am not sure about that.

so here i am!

it's quite boring in comparison to dons story about time. (although Don time does reveal all)

Cheers
Jenni
"What d'you think about that? Now you know how I feel"
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Mephisto
Unregistered guest
Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 2:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello Mr. Hill,

I was reading through Pub Talk when I came upon your January 15, 2005-5:22 am post. It appears that our interest in The Whitechapel Murders was initiated by the same source.

In the fall of 1960, a few friends and I saw the movie "Jack the Ripper" at a local theater. It starred Lee Patterson (As the Ripper), Eddie Byrne (As an American Detective), and Betty McDowall (The love interest).

I remember commenting to my buddies that Mr. Patterson's goatee was obviously a fake. On our way home, my 10 year old friends and I discussed the goatee issue, and decided that some English gentlemen of that era might have wore false beards like a toupee for the chin.

Although the movie was filmed in black and white, the finale of the escape scene (the Ripper is trapped in an elevator pit) was shot in Technicolor. I will never forget the shock of seeing the killer's blood oozing through the wooden floor boards like simmering tomato sauce.

A few years ago, the film became available on video, and I bought a copy. The question the murderer asked each of his victims was: "Are you Mary Clark". According to screenplay writer Jimmy Sangster, the murders were an act of vengeance, i.e., the Ripper's son died of syphilis, which he got from a London prostitute named Mary Clark.

The video is distributed by:
The Incredibly Strange Filmworks Inc.
P.O. Box 245. Dept. NB
Jamestown, Missouri, 65046-0245

I think I bought the video from Amazon, but I'm not sure. If you're interested in buying a copy, I'll try and find the invoice.



Best regards,



Mephisto


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Phil Hill
Detective Sergeant
Username: Phil

Post Number: 113
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 12:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Mephisto, that was indeed the film. I have a video taped from the TV when it was shown 10 or more years ago!!

Pretty lousy now, but the impact of the trailer on me then (age 10) was dramatic. I can still feel my terror, though it has not worried me since the mid-70s.

Thanks again for the info

Phil
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Donald Souden
Inspector
Username: Supe

Post Number: 439
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 5:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mephisto,

Was that American detective Eddie Byrnes of "Kookie, Kookie, (lend me your comb)" fame? The success of that record gave hope to a generation of non-singers.

Don.
"He was so bad at foreign languages he needed subtitles to watch Marcel Marceau."
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 4070
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 5:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don, if it's the Eddie Byrne I'm thinking of, I believe he was an Irish actor.

Robert
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Donald Souden
Inspector
Username: Supe

Post Number: 440
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 7:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Robert,

Most likely you are right. I was intrigued simply because at the same time an American Eddie Byrnes was breaking teenaged girls' hearts in the TV detective series "77 Sunset Strip."

Regardless, this is a fun thread. Will you now, Robert, follow with what first kindled your interest?

Don.


"He was so bad at foreign languages he needed subtitles to watch Marcel Marceau."
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 4073
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 3:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, Don, until Farson's book was published the only thing I'd heard about JTR was the usual - my grandmother told me her parents would tell her to come in, or JTR might get her.

Then Farson's book was serialised in the "Evening News" and I was fascinated. I was given the book as a Christmas present.

After that I obtained books every now and again - not a terribly large number. I would have "Ripper periods" when I would immerse myself in my books for a few days, boring family and friends in the process, before putting them away till next time.

When I saw Casebook I felt I had to join. Since then I've studied the case more intensively than I ever did before.

I can just about remember Kookie. Didn't he keep his comb in the back pocket of his jeans? I tried that when I was a kid. At first it was a steel comb, which did terrible things to ny backside whenever I sat down - steel teeth digging in. But I found that a plastic one would get bent - which is OK I suppose if you have wavy hair.

Robert
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Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack

Post Number: 494
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 5:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Robert, Don

I thought Eddie Byrne was Irish as well, but I checked the IMDB website, and found he was born in Birmingham, although he did die in Dublin in 1981.
Just for info Eddie Byrne played Scotland Yard Inspector O'Neil, and Lee Paterson played the American Detective Sam Lowery.

This is the cover for the book of the movie, and one of my favourite Jack the Ripper book covers.



All the best

Rob
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 4075
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 5:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Rob. Yes, good cover. Strange, though - she's not looking at the Ripper at all (mind you, nor am I).

Robert
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Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg

Post Number: 1874
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 5:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Robert,
clearly whoevers drawing the picture is much more scary!
Jenni
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Phil Hill
Detective Sergeant
Username: Phil

Post Number: 118
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 3:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Those sure were the days!! Not sure whether i mean the 1880s or the 1950s.

Actually, what's frightening is how close the 50s were to JtR's day. People were alive who lived through that autumn. Socially, the world was not that much different.

Today is a universe away.

Phil

Phil
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi

Post Number: 2110
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 3:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

LOVE that cover!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just says it all dont you think!!!! hehe
Suzi
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George Hutchinson
Inspector
Username: Philip

Post Number: 347
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 8:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have always been a bit left-field; if you have odd interests, you are interestING and people want to talk to you and you always have something to talk about etc etc...

Well, when I was a teenager MURDER CASEBOOK came out and a mate of mine suggested I should read it, knowing how obtuse my interests were.

Being of an age when you are struggling for identity and curious to see how others view you, I bought a copy. Instantly hooked. True crime has been a big part of my life ever since.

I have to say, though I read the Ripper material as avidly as anyone else, Jack was far from my #1 killer. I was far more fascinated by the likes of Nilsen (who I have been in touch with for some years now - it was me that put him up to writing the article in Ripperana - for which I got no credit or thanks!), Christie and Gacy; people who can sexually assault, kill, keep the bodies in their homes, and carry on living normal lives - it is so far from me as a person (I feel guilt even when I shouldn't) that it has always fascinated me. Ironically, this interest has led a lot of people into thinking because I read about it, I must be like it myself. I have always dressed fairly casually, sometimes slightly eccentrically (but never as a 'goth') but when I was at college a rumour was going around that I was a Satanist! I can only put this down to my interest in crime.

It wasn't until I was working as an actor at The London Dungeon in 1998 that I became obsessive about Jack. I have always loved history, but the thing that has always drawn me in has been the poverty, the degredation, the filth. Not for me the world of Jane Austen! Why? I don't know. Maybe the clothes, maybe the darkness, maybe a touch of sympathy.

On a more objective level, the Jack The Ripper section (totally unlike the real locations and very ill-informed in its lack of knowledge by both playbacks and the staff) was the most hard-work area for the actors there as it was all constant verbal on the crimes. Everyone tried to avoid it, but I enjoyed knowing what I was talking about (for most people there it was just a job) so I was always stuck with it on my rota.

After I left there Jack was just another of my serial killer interests. And then I was cast in one of the lead roles in a production of the musical JACK THE RIPPER (now THERE is a confused piece of work, but with some smashing songs in it) and it was down to me to let everyone know the facts behind it and so on.

Then 2 years ago there was an ad in THE STAGE calling for actors and tour guides with an interest in Jack The Ripper to contact the boss of Golden Tours. Well, that was me to a 'T'. I have been tour guiding for years and run my own successful ghost tour business as well. 300 people applied and I was given the job before I even left the interview and I've been working for them ever since (a convenient position but I sure would like to earn a lot more money for the job I do!)

Then, in early 2004, I was having a talk at a Ghost Club meeting with an American visitor and the Chairman about Jack. The Chairman piped up that he knew Stewart Evans and I should contact him. I did - I'm honoured to have seen THE collection (including the nooses) on more than one occasion - and quite chuffed to be able to call him a friend. It's also now at the stage where I am on first-name terms with Don Rumbelow too (though I've yet to have a proper talk with him). Stewart inspired me and my collection of Ripper books has grown and grown. I'm a big fan of the old and rare ones, as long as I can afford them!

Then Casebook decided it had to be more of my life than just an occasional peek if I am websurfing on Jack. I found the reception I was given from almost everyone on the boards was such a welcoming and friendly community that I don't want to let it go. It is probable that Jack has now overtaken ghosts as my #1 interest, and I never thought that would happen.

I'm very lucky that my job (well, one of the 6 I have, though I love them all) is also my hobby.

Short of saying what I had for breakfast today I can't say more than that!

PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Mephisto
Unregistered guest
Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 6:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello Mr. Souden,

Mr. Linford is correct; Eddie Byrne was a popular Irish actor. Eddies Byrnes was the American born actor who played Kookie Burns in the early 1960's series, 77 Sunset Strip. He also made a cameo appearance as the Junior Prom MC in the movie Grease.


Best regards



Mephisto


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Barnaby
Police Constable
Username: Barnaby

Post Number: 4
Registered: 9-2005
Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 11:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My interest in the Ripper started when I was 12 years old and read the short story "Yours Truly, Jack the Ripper" by Robert Bloch. It nearly scared me to death - but it caused me to make a beeline to the nonfiction section of my public library and check out everything they had on the Ripper.
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Nicholas Smith
Detective Sergeant
Username: Diddles

Post Number: 121
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 12:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My interest started when I was writing my first book about male violence about 12 years ago and happened to come across this bloke cake called Jack. The research has been going since then.

Jules
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi

Post Number: 2994
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 4:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rob C!!!!!!
IVE posted that one!!!! Good aint it!!!!!

Suzi
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Robert Clack
Chief Inspector
Username: Rclack

Post Number: 654
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 4:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Suzi,

Are you feeling all right?

Rob

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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 5065
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 5:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rob, I think Suzi's talking about the book cover. I remember it coming up before - I said something about Shirley Eaton.

Jack seems to have rather large ears. Hope it's not meant to be Prince Charles.

"Ehhr...are you Mary Kelly?"

Robert
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Robert Clack
Chief Inspector
Username: Rclack

Post Number: 656
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 5:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Robert, I was getting a bit worried.
Jack could be Mr Spock. No that's not logical.

Rob
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Eddie Derrico
Unregistered guest
Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 2:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My Father was an amateur boxer in the 1940's and collected a magazine called "Police Gazette", which had many articles not related to crime. Many articles were about the latest heavyweight championship fights with fighters like Joe Louis, Joe Walcott and Rocky Marciano. I was about 8 or 9 years old when I started reading the articles, and I came across a story about the "Mad Butcher of Kingsbury Run". The "Mad Butcher" would kill and dismember the bodies. Then put the body parts in baskets or garbage bags and leave them in a place where they would be easily found. He even left a torso in front of Elliott Ness's Office in the 1930's. The "Mad Butcher" was never caught, and is still a mystery today. This scared the daylights out of me, but really got me interested in unsolved murders. I started reading more articles and came across a "Jack the Ripper" story, which got me hooked. The "Ripper" was my favorite crime subject, and I've been reading books about the "Ripper Crimes" ever since. My favorite book, right now, is Paul Beggs latest, which, I think has the most detail of all.

Yours Truly

Eddie
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Nicholas Smith
Detective Sergeant
Username: Diddles

Post Number: 122
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 7:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

G'dat Eddie,

That's an interesting story about the 'Mad Butcher' and to be honest I've never heard of him till now. How many victims did he take or that an unknown?

Jules
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Eddie Derrico
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 8:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello Jules,

I believe he killed at least 10 people. This happened in the Cleveland area in the 1930's. But for a while the murders stopped and, at the same time, started in Northwest Pennsylvania. Because this was in the 1930's, during the depression, Police thought the killer skipped on a train to PA and started there, but I don't think they credited the PA Murders to the Clevland Murders. Here's a site you can go to and read about it. Enjoy.

Yours Truly

Eddie

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/unsolved/kingsbury/index_1.html?sect=4
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Barnaby
Police Constable
Username: Barnaby

Post Number: 6
Registered: 9-2005
Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 9:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And there are similarities between this case and the Ripper. The Cleveland murderer killed and mutilated prostitutes, and taunting letters were sent to Ness, allegedly from the killer. Also, there is debate as to whether Ness knew who the killer was and just couldn't prove it. One final similarity - it ended Ness's public career. He retired shortly thereafter.
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Barnaby
Police Constable
Username: Barnaby

Post Number: 7
Registered: 9-2005
Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 9:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If you are interested, there is an entire thread on the Cleveland Torso Murderers under the Shades of Whitechapel board.
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John Hacker
Inspector
Username: Jhacker

Post Number: 324
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 9:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For those interested in the Cleveland torso murders, there is an excellent book on the subject called "In the Wake of the Butcher" by James Badal. I believe it's published by Kent State University Press.

We were lucky to have Dr. Badal speak at the 2002 JtR conference in Baltimore about this fascinating case, and it looks like he's on the schedule for 2006. Another good reason to attend!

Best regards,

John
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Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana

Post Number: 796
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 10:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have always loved mysteries. I started as a child with Nancy Drew, grew up and graduated to Agatha Christie, then when I had read all of hers, started on true crime.

In 1988 there were two telecasts run the same week, both of which I taped and occasionally still rewatch, one was the Michael Caine movie and the other was the "Secret Identity of Jack the Ripper".

After seeing these two I then started checking out library books and then as my family became computerized, this website. I have been an addict ever since.

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Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty

Post Number: 1903
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 11:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You know how it is,

You start out on the smaller Hammersmith nudes and late Victorian mystries. Then one day they leave you wanting a little more....always more.

Then you move on to the more hard core such as Bundy and the Green River and the next thing you know Jack is on the horizon and thats all you crave.

I aint proud of it but remember, Im the victim. Its the pushers we should blame, names such as McCormick, Cullen, Knight, Rumbelow in the early days and on to Begg, Fido, Skinner, Howells Sugden and Evans today. Hanging around street corners and park benches. Drinking 'Turbo' and handing out 'complementary copies' of their latest efforts.

Hell, even Begg has his own supplementary Ripperologist. Under the gise of East end history this addicts gem is flaunted to the weak by the holy trinity of George, Wood and Zinna (who put the word men into Henchmen). With the ruthlessness of an African dictator these four prey on the soles whose interest is never sated.

No, I aint proud.

Monty
:-(


If you like to help Monty or any other demented Ripperologist please make your donations payable to

Ripperologist
PO Box 735
Maidstone
Kent ME17 1JF


We are here to help



My prediction? 3-0 to us. 5-0 if the weather holds out. - Glenn McGrath
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Phil Hill
Chief Inspector
Username: Phil

Post Number: 940
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 1:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Monty - that was wonderful!! Thank you.

Phil
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George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip

Post Number: 754
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 2:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is very odd.

I posted on this thread earlier today and it never showed up. Has this ever happened to any other registered user?

All I was saying in the posting was that I had read it all today with an intention of posting and then as I scrolled down I realised I had already done so in huge detail, though I had no recollection of doing it! It was odd... like my thoughts had been read or something by someone else.

Spoookyyyy....

PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Brad McGinnis
Inspector
Username: Brad

Post Number: 275
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 4:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Philip, see what happens when you hang out with all those ghosts?
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Eddie Derrico
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 11:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Barnaby

Thanks. I'm gonna read up on it.

John

That sounds like a good book for a "Change of Pace". I might take you up on that.
I don't want to bore anyone, but here's a story about how my imagination got the best of me when I was about 12 years old. We had a great fishing hole in the middle of the woods. Had to hop the Bethlehem Steel freight train to get there. One day, I was fishing by myself at that spot and I came across a large garbage bag with flies buzzing all around. The first thing I thought was "The Mad Butcher" IS in Pennsylvania ! I didn't wait for any train to get back. I ran down the tracks and got about 5 of my friends to go along with me. We found the bag and poked it with a stick and kicked it until it opened. It ended up to be just garbage, but it sure put a scare into me.

Yours Truly

Eddie


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John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr

Post Number: 465
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2005 - 11:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well Done Phil,
A thread like this has been badly needed for some time.
It is innate in the human species to have a natural curiosity.
Hence we have scientists, historians, explorers, inventors, university students and (allegedly) investigative reporters.
Not to mention what we in Australia call "Sticky
Beaks" and "Nosey Bastards" and the rest of the world calls gossips and snoopers.
Anyway, in 1973 I read a Sydney (Australia) newspaper review of a new Ripper book, Daniel Farson's "Jack the Ripper"(paperback, revised edition, Sphere Books).
It mentioned Farson's unsuccessful hunt in Dandenong, Victoria - right here in Australia-
to find an elusive document allegedly written by an English medical man Lionel Druitt, Drewett or Drewery who might have been a cousin of a JTR suspect on a Scotland Yard list!
Whoa! The missing clue to JTR right here in Australia? Let me at it!
I not only tracked Dr Lionel Druitt through about
ninety percent of the towns he resided in in three states, but managed to read or have read
most of the country newspapers for those periods too! No mean feat in a country where bushfires and floods and a shortage of toilet paper can mean a town's newspaper of record was lost for all time!
I never found the Dandenong Document; but think I can answer the question of what the mysterious Mr Knowles was talking about when he wrote to Farson way back in 1959.
Lastly, on these boards we frequently denigrate Farson and McCormick and Knight and others for the lurid, florid, outrageously inaccurate, and plain untrue stories they have incorporated as gospel in their famous books.
I should just like to pay tribute to these legend spinners who, if you put aside the thousands of wasted research hours Ripper studies people have put into pursuing some of these myths, were largely responsible for attracting so many Ripper
Junkies to these boards, books and journals in the first place.
Phil Hill might be frustrated by their wasteful
lies, but, By Jingoes, they've sure made the
unmasking of those myths a pleasant journey haven't they?

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