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Jonathan Menges
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 9:24 am: | 
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Hi.
I've been visiting this site for a long time and find it very useful and entertaining. I have a question that I can't find the proper place for so I'll ask here, and maybe someone could point me to a specific thread. And I'm also looking for people to destroy the following theory.
I was always curious about the claim that (at least) 2 medical institutions were approached by an American about the possibility of purchasing wombs. Tumbelty has been mentioned being this individual, if it occurred at all. Let's say that an American did express interest in acquiring wombs, was rejected by the hospitals etc. and then paid someone to get them for him. Paid a down and out criminal type to kill prostitutes for their wombs with the promise of money. And this hired murderer did not do a very good job.
Annie Chapman's murder most fits with this scenario. There is a good possibility that whoever killed her also robbed her of her rings and at least searched, if not robbed her of, the contents of her pocket purse she wore under her clothes. And he took portions of her sex organs. To me this shows someone who was attempting to get the organs for someone else, and robbing her for themselves. A hired murderer who could not help but rob the woman.
The Berner street witness Schwartz's testimony could also possibly be the boss and his hired hand at work.
Any thoughts?
J. Menges |
Maria Giordano
Inspector
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 254
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 12:47 pm: |
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I've never thought this makes sense. If a doctor wanted wombs, why would he hire a thug to go out and kill people,leaving them on the street and calling attention to the crimes and -most problematic- not coming back with what he wanted most of the time.
If a doctor really wanted wombs for some reason doesn't it make more sense to have the thug kidnap the women then kill them and carefully extract the organ,making sure it was undamaged,himself? If he even need a thug at all.
Mags
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Michael Raney
Inspector
Username: Mikey559
Post Number: 473
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 6:12 pm: |
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Jonathan,
Welcome to the site! And....sorry, but I have to agree with Mags on this one. If a Doctor hired a thug, he'd want to make sure the bodies were disposed of or at least hidden, wouldn't he?
Mikey |
Diana
Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 454
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 9:09 am: |
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Then you've also got to figure out why he didn't take Kelly's womb. |
Jonathan Menges
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 10:06 am: |
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Thank you for the welcome. I don't totally suscribe to this theory, but I do find it interesting to think about.
Mikey wrote "he'd want to make sure the bodies were disposed of or at least hidden, wouldn't he?"
Why?
I guess that the question of why the bodies were not hidden leads to the question of either the sanity of the killer or motive for the killings. I think that it has more to do with the later. The fact is that they were not hidden and (in my opinion) whoever committed the murders had for one of his aims the removal of sex organs.
That's that. To assume that something different would happen like kidnapping or destruction of the body if the suspect in the theory is a doctor (and going by this would be a cold-blooded murderer as well) doesn't make much sense to me. If the supposed doctor was an American, who may have been in America during many of the murders, and the killer was a criminal, who would the police believe if the thug turned coat and accused the doctor?
I believe I read that the investigators at the time stated that removal of the organs was a primary purpose, if not motive, of the killings.
Re: MJK, I admit for this theory to be correct the "thug" would have to be a bumbler for sure. Maybe he mangled the womb and so just proceeded to butcher her, and take her heart instead? Maybe the ineptness of the hired murderer was the reaon for the end of the killings?
Again, I am not devoted to this theory, just thinking out loud, in a rambling kind of way. Although it did lead me to research some American medical doctors who specialized in veneral diseases among prostitutes, and I came across one who was a zealous crusader of sorts against street prostitution, became well-known in his field, and spent time in London (a few years preceeding the murders) for his schooling. But I've yet to come across a detailed biographical sketch of the doc that could put him in London at the time of JtR.
Thanks for the replies.
jm |
Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 1401
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 4:22 am: |
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Hi Jonathan,
I don't think there's any evidence that MJK's womb was mangled - it was removed and later found under her head.
What about the simpler theory that a trophy-taking serial killer didn't have to content himself with taking yet another womb back to his lair with MJK?
He wasn't a hungry boy robbing the sweet stall this time, in anticipation of the feast to come; he was alone in the chocolate factory, and able to make an absolute pig of himself.
Love,
Caz
X |
Sir Robert Anderson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sirrobert
Post Number: 124
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 4:17 pm: |
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" he was alone in the chocolate factory, and able to make an absolute pig of himself."
That explains the bad vibe I had when recently visiting Cadbury World!
Sir Robert
"I only thought I knew"
SirRobertAnderson@gmail.com
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CB
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 11:27 pm: |
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Hi Johnathan,
Yes, the topic has been disscussed on the boards and there seems to be some reason to believe that the strange American might have exisisted. Inspector Abberline in 1903 named George Chapman as a possible ripper. Abberline put forth this possible scenerio. He believed that Chapman may have been Hired by someone to harvest the organs. He suggested that the ripper may have been targeting the organs. Your theory was suggested by someone who worked closely on the case.
The ripper chose prostitutes because they were easy targets. The reason why the ripper did not hide the bodies is because he had no time and no way of moveing them without bringing attention to himself. He may have been disturbed during the Nicholes and Stride murder. He was almost caught by a constable who arrived on the scene just after the Eddowes murder. It is not like he could throw the bodies in his car and drive away with them. He had no way of hiding the bodies. I have no doubt that if he had tried to hide the bodies he would have been caught. I believe the woman led him to the place were they were killed and the ripper left them were he killed them.
Tumblety is a good suspect. He was a suspect at the time and he is on my short list. It was claimed that Tumblety had a collection of organs and he possesed several wombs. I think the ripper took what ever organ he fancied at the time. There is a lot of good Tumblety discissions. You can find them under suspects.
Your friend,CB |
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