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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris

Post Number: 1110
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 8:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have always been intrigued by Charles Cross - after all, he was the first to discover the body of the first canonical victim (Nichols) and he was found alone in close proximity to the body by the seond witness, Robert Paul. In the surviving inquest reports Paul's address is given, but not Cross'. There is also the confusion that Cross' name in the inquest report is given as George Cross instead of Charles Cross. Just to add fuel to the confusion, the most likely candidate I have found in 1891 data was actually called William!
Cross is consistently recorded as a carman. Having looked through 1891 cansisdates, the only likely identification was as follows:
83 Quaker Street Buildings, Christchurch, Spitalfields.
Head:
William Charles Cross aged 38 born New Cross - Carman
Wife:
Clara Eliza Cross aged 24 born Bethnal Green
Children:
William aged 2
Lilian Ethel aged 3 months
Both children born in Spitalfields
Quaker Street is to the north of Spitalfields Market and runs parallel to Great Pearl Street

The timings mentioned in the inquest testimony are truly baffling. Cross testified that he left home at twenty mintes past three and he arrived at his work ar Broad Street at four o'clock. I am having difficulties establishing exactly where this Broad Street was. There is no existing road of that name in the area and the only occurrence I can find of it in the 19th century was in the Ratcliff Highway area and became part of Cable Street. Of course there are too many "ifs" - if the Cross I have identified is the right one, and if he was living at Quaker Street two and half years earlier etc etc. I find this hard to reconcile - the walk from Quaker Street to the Cable Street area could not possibly be done in wtenty minutes, allowing for a diversion into Buck's Row to find the body, summon a policeman etc.
In any case PC Mizen's inquest testimony directly contradicts Cross' statement. Cross said he got to work at four o'clock. Mizen in his statement said: "at quarter past four on Friday morning he was in Hanbury Street, Baker's Row, and a man passing said: 'You are wanted in Baker's Row.' The man, named Cross, stated that a woman had been found there.... When Cross spoke to witness he was accompanied by another man and both of them afterwards went down Hanbury Street."
In this both the time and the location of the murder are obviously wrong - the time should surely read quarter to four, not quarter past and the road should be Buck's Row and not Baker's Row.
Paul and Cross parted company at the corner of Hanbury Street.
If anyone has any info as to the exact location of Broad Street I would be very grateful as I am trying to locate his most likely route and why he was in Buck's Row.
Chris
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Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek

Post Number: 492
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 9:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chris,

If Cross left his home at 3:20 and arrived at work at 4:00, that's 40 minutes, not 20 minutes!

Andy S.
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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris

Post Number: 1111
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 11:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doh! Maths never was my strong point:-)
Chris
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Christopher T George
Chief Inspector
Username: Chrisg

Post Number: 706
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi, Chris

They could have been talking about Broad Street, Soho, now known as Broadwick Street.

Chris
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Chris Michetti
Detective Sergeant
Username: Pl4tinum

Post Number: 107
Registered: 2-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 2:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I read somewhere that the two carmen were investigated but were released when nothing could be proven against them. I guess it would have been pretty hard to prove anything, considering they had a pretty good alibi (going to work nearby and discovering the body, and actually alerting police).

PS. 3 posts by a 'Chris' in a row. Neat-o, lol :-)
Chris
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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris

Post Number: 1112
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 8:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Chris G
I did look at the possibility of Broad Street, Soho but that lies west of Quaker Street so if Cross was living in Quaker Street at the time there would be no sense in his being in or near Buck's Row which lies well to the east. Again this is subject to the two provisos I mentioned above i.e. if I have the right Cross and if he was at the same address in 1888.
Let me make it clear I am not leading up to putting Cross forward as yet another suspect! I am not in that game now or ever, and am just trying to clarify Cross' testimony.
Regards
Chris
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Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack

Post Number: 231
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Chris

Inspector Abberline's report of 19th September, gives Charles Cross address as 22 Doveton Street, Cambridge Road, Bethnal Green.

Chris, If you look at your 1894 Ordnance Survey map, on the western side of Liverpool Street Station is Broad Street Station. I believe this is what Charles Cross was refering to, and his route after Bucks Row took him all along Hanbury Street, so he would be heading in that direction.

All the best

Rob
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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris

Post Number: 1121
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Very good info Rob - many thanks
Chris
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Taly Mizzard
Unregistered guest
Posted on Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 11:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm, is this the same Charles Cross spoken of at :

http://www.oxygenee.com/absintheFAQ3.html

where the author talks about the Paris caberet scene in the latter half of the 1800s? Here's what they say:

"most famous of all, the Chat Noir,
founded in 1881 by Theodore Salis, an unsuccessful painter. Erik Satie played the piano here and Alfred Jarry was a regular, as was the
remarkable poet and inventor Charles Cross, who reputedly drank 20 absinthes a night."

Perhaps the culprit was an absinthe-head who made the drug-addled mistake of giving his real name the first time he was found near a dead body?

TM

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