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Carl Dodd
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 10:07 am: |       |
I want to present some ideas for the Casebook's thinkers to consider. I would like to hear back from you with your opinions.
To my way of thinking, Druitt is too convenient to be JtR. Druitt dies shortly after Mary Kelly was murdered. Druitt supposedly leaves a suicide note. Druitt supposedly drowns himself in the Thames and his body is later recovered weighted down with rocks in the pocket of his suit. Supposedly his own family suspects that Druitt was probably JtR because of him being insane. Having been in law enforcement for a number of years, I know from experience that there are police officers who will automatically take the easy way out. In other words, there do exist lazy cops. For some reason, I have a feeling that claiming that Druitt was JtR was exactly that: the easy way out. Too many times this easy way out is also the WRONG way to go.
Here are some items about the Druitt case that bothers me:
As far as I can determine not many people got to see the Druitt suicide letter. Supposedly the letter was found and read but it was NOT filed away for evidence and is not available for us to analyze now. There was no handwriting analysis done on it to confirm that MJD really did write the letter. We also do not have the structure or phrasing of the suicide letter to look at.
MJD was a successful attorney. Sure, successful people and attorneys are always under pressure. Has anybody given thought to the idea that MJD, being an attorney, MIGHT have been contacted by JtR for possible legal representation? Could MJD been contacted by a possible co-conspirator of JtR's for legal representation of some sort? If so, could MJD's death been a murder instead of a suicide to keep him silent? It is NOT unusual for murder victims to be tossed into bodies of water after being weighted down. Sometimes murder victims are weighted down with rocks, old engine parts and scrap metal. Druitt's body being weighted down with rocks presents more of an idea of trying to hide a body rather than a suicide. Sure, some people who commit suicide do weight their bodies down with metal and rocks BUT THOSE INCIDENTS ARE VERY, VERY RARE. Druitt's death just does NOT seem to follow a standard suicide.
Comments? Ideas? |
Maria Giordano
Inspector
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 152
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 10:53 am: | |
Hi,Carol--
I agree that Druitt is a very convienent suspect and I think that if he had died before Kelly was murdered we would never have heard of him.
As was pointed out in another thread, the Macnaghten Memorandum was written to say "Cutbush didn't do it and here are three suspects- right off the top of my head- who are more likely than Cutbush."
As for his death, I do think that MJD did committ suicide, that the pressure of losing his job at the school maybe the related scandal it might cause or the underlying problem that led to the dismissal caused him to dread going insane and ending up locked away so he took his life instead.
I know I'm going to get in trouble for that "top of my head" thing so just let me say that MM didn't treat the subject as lightly as I may have implied.
Mags |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1286
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 11:23 am: | |
Hi Carl,very intersting and similar thoughts have been expressed before.Some have even suggested his family may have got rid of him.However,if we can perhaps eliminate him through finding out more[which is happening all the time] we may be able to do the same with the next "prime suspect" Kosminski.
I myself think we dont still know the half of it.
Macnaghten I believe had his reasons and had seen material we havent-as Donald Rumbelow said they could have searched his chambers and found a knife/bloodstained clothing[which was reported in one of the Dorset or West country local papers at around the time 1888/9
-" The suspect is thought to be the son of a surgeon[which he was]and blood stained clothing was found in his room.".Its on here somewhere.Will look it up tomorrow as I am going to the Theatre tonight.
Natalie |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 599
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 11:39 am: | |
Hi Carl,
We shouldn't be surprised if few people saw Druitt's suicide letter. I'm doing a bit of research on coroners and one of the things I'm finding out is that coroners have tremendous respect for families of victims. In some cases, they won't even read suicide letters out loud during proceedings, and that's strictly out of deference to the family (although if they find it necessary, they'll do so, as seems to have been the case with Druitt). They won't gag the press however, so I believe the reporter present at the inquest showed the same deference to William Druitt by not publishing the full text of the letter. So I see nothing mysterious there, just a bit of compassion going on.
Speaking of which, just now in England and Wales, they're considering closing inquests to the public, in cases where the families request it.
Incidentally, how do we know they didn't keep Druitt's suicide letter? It's possible the letter, after being transcribed into the record, would have been returned to Druitt's brother. Or maybe the original was kept with Diplock's inquest papers, which we don't what happened to. Inquest reports, as Paul Begg informed me last summer, were the private property of coroners.
Cheers,
Dave |
Dan Norder
Inspector
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 423
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 11:47 am: | |
I personally suspect that a lot of what makes Druitt seem suspiciously too convenient are actually just artifacts of Macnaghten trying to put a slant on it. You'll note that the draft version is less incriminating than the final and that at least one of the criteria that was supposed to be so damning (being a doctor) was by all accounts completely wrong. Whether it was wrong because Macnaghten had a poor memory or because he threw it in to make it sound better is unknown, but either way the other alleged facts about him have to be called into question too. The whole sexually insane and suspected by his family aspects could be completely groundless.
If he was just some guy who committed suicide with nothing else about him except dying a month after the last victim (or the last one that Macnaghten accepted as a true victim anyway, if he hadn't been so pro-Druitt perhaps the canonical victim list would have more than five names on it) then it doesn't sound too convenient at all. More like coincidental.
Dan Norder, editor, Ripper Notes |
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 672
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 4:50 pm: | |
Yes, Druitt is in many ways a "convenient" suspect. But don't fall into the trap of discounting the obvious just because it is obvious! The simplest (most obvious) solutions are usually the correct ones. Only resort to the more complex if the simplest don't work.
I don't know if Druitt was JtR. I once discounted that idea almost entirely. Now I am much more open to it, especially since there is perhaps so much yet to be learned about this man.
BTW -- I don't know that the "suicide note" was not filed. I don't know that it would be "evidence" in the JtR investigation. Druitt's inquest established his death. If he was JtR, there is no need to preserve evidence since there can be no further legal proceeding. The note therefore could have been filed and later lost or discarded -- or perhaps it still exists in some dusty attic or cellar.
Andy S. |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 522
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 12:38 am: | |
Hi Carl,
I like the whole mystery of Monty Druitt because his sad fate is so murky - as murky as the Thames he drowned in. The possibility of his being murdered rather than a suicide has often crossed the minds of students of the case. In fact, in his novel THE RETURN OF MORIARTY, John Gardner suggested Monty was the Ripper, but that Professor Moriarty arranged his drowning because the Ripper's activities in Whitechapel was bad for the Professor's prostitution business! Other
suggestions include the possibility that there was no suicide note, or that a forged suicide note was "found" by Monty's brother William, who knew more about the end of his brother than he let on. However, Monty could have been murdered by anyone as this is such an open-ended speculation. He could have been killed by the family of a disgruntled student. He could have been killed by Mr. Valentine. He may have represented a client badly. There are too many possibilities here.
Except for one. If Jack the Ripper somehow hired Monty for help, Monty was a barrister - there would have had to be a solicitor who brought the Ripper to Monty's chambers. So far no dead solicitor has turned up. In England, I believe, it is traditional that a client can only approach a barrister through a solicitor.
But if Jack was a friend or relative of Monty's, he could have said something that Monty realized linked Jack to the crimes....but again this is open - ended speculation.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Phil Hill
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 12:16 pm: | |
Except that we cannot dismiss the fact that MM had private information, probably from the family, which we do not possess.
Neither Ostrog not Kosminski were casual names - we know the latter was STRONGLY suspected by Anderson and Swanson; and that Ostrog WAS being sought by the police (though we may now know him an unlikely candidate, MM didn't have 20/20 hindsight.
The memorandum is IMHO clearly a background brief against possible questions in the House - but never used. It does what it says on the packet, shows a number of men more likely than Cutbush to have been JtR. End of story. They were not names plucked from the air.
However, I will say this. I think there is a possibility that Druitt was a convenient cover (though not baseless) for a suspected link to Fenian terrorists. The latter link had to be protected against leakage and speculation at all costs - thus the public story. Druitt gave MM a name to mention when pressed by friends - as he clearly did to Sims and others.
Just my opinion as ever,
Phil |
Julie Lambert
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 12:07 pm: | |
This may have been mentioned before but, if Druitt was a serious suspect, why did the police search for the Ripper continue after Druitt's death? If Macnaghten had 'private evidence' from the family about Druitt's guilt, at what point after Druitt's death was this 'evidence' communicated to him?
If the police were so certain the Ripper was dead, why didn't they close the case and why were other victims attributed to the Ripper?
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Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 677
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 20, 2004 - 4:33 pm: | |
Actually, the search was scaled way down shortly after Druitt's death. This may have been as a result of his death or it may have been a result of no further Ripper murders taking place for 2-3 months, or a little of both. It may be that the police thought the killer was dead, but were not totally sure.
Andy S.
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Phil Hill
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 7:31 am: | |
It may be that the police thought the killer was dead, but were not totally sure.
Which ties in precisely with what MM says in his memorandum. But I am not sure that we can base much on the point. Given lost information, we simply don't know what police motivation was for down-sizing the workload.
Except for one. If Jack the Ripper somehow hired Monty for help, Monty was a barrister - there would have had to be a solicitor who brought the Ripper to Monty's chambers. So far no dead solicitor has turned up. In England, I believe, it is traditional that a client can only approach a barrister through a solicitor.
But if Jack was a friend or relative of Monty's, he could have said something that Monty realized linked Jack to the crimes....but again this is open - ended speculation.
Exactly, and baseless speculation at that. As is:
Other suggestions include the possibility that there was no suicide note, or that a forged suicide note was "found" by Monty's brother William, who knew more about the end of his brother than he let on. However, Monty could have been murdered by anyone as this is such an open-ended speculation. He could have been killed by the family of a disgruntled student. He could have been killed by Mr. Valentine. He may have represented a client badly. There are too many possibilities here.
Using logic like this, anyone in Victorian Britain could have done the deeds!!! What about Mr Valentine's neighbour, who's dog Druitt kicked on 27 July 1887. Or the people he played cards with on saturday nights? Or the cricketer he bowled out once too often?
Please.....
Phil |
Julie Lambert
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 5:27 am: | |
Druitt's suicide coincided with the end of the murders. At what point did his family suspect he may have been the killer? Was his behaviour prior to the murders in any way strange? What motive did he have to suddenly start killing prostitutes?
A drepressed young man who commits suicide is, sadly, not all that unusual. I am sure there were more than a few families who feared that their son, brother or whoever, may have been the murderer because of some strange behaviour being manifest at the time - indeed some individuals themselves feared that may be the murderer - but is there any real evidence to connect them with the murder scenes or to establish that they knew the area well? Druitt does not seem to fit in my opinion. |
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 704
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 8:07 pm: | |
Julie,
These are indeed the right questions to ask, with the caveat that if he were mentally ill he may not have needed a rational motive. I am not without hope that some of these questons may yet be answered.
Andy S. |
Julie Lambert
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 4:17 am: | |
Thanks Andy. I think it's important to establish that although many theorists give credit to Macnaghten's memorandum because of his position in the police force and his access to the files, he could not have been that familiar with Druitt and his family because he got crucial details about Druitt wrong - for example his age and his profession.
Additionally, when discussing Kosminski in the same memorandum, he makes the statement 'he became insane due to many years indulgence in solitary vices'.
Now, although Macnaghten dismisses Kosminski as a suspect himself, the fact that the police were thinking in these terms when looking for suspects indicates that they were out of their depth and were clutching at straws even several years after the last murder. |
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