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Malta Joe
Sergeant
Username: Malta
Post Number: 23
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 4:27 pm: | 
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After looking through the volumes of the Hibernia Bank Records, there were no Tumblety references. I also checked his aliases. (Frank Townsend, W J Morgan, J H Blackburn.) I was able to discover a decent news article concerning Tumblety at the Bancroft Library. I'll post that after I speak of this other matter.
While researching into these banking records I contacted my home, and I was informed that a large envelope had arrived from the National Archives and Records Administration. A NARA employee who works in the "Old Military and Civil Records - Textual Archives Service Division" dug deep for me and retrieved a Tumblety file. It was located in the Turner-Baker Papers in Record Group 94, Records of the Adjutant General's Office. I had previously requested the NARA to look into military orders issued during the American Civil War which banned the possession of Tumblety literature for Union Soldiers. The NARA's efforts went beyond my request, and I'm very appreciative to them for this. The Tumblety file consists of a Union Army soldier's testimony, and I'll post this testimony in a moment. Some things should be known before reading it:
* Georgetown is located in the District of Columbia.
* Alexandria is a city in northeastern Virginia.
* Fort Haggerty was a Union Army Installation constructed in 1861 for the defense of Wash DC. It stands today in the county of Arlington, Virginia.
* The Evening Star's 4-17-62 article revealed Tumblety's Wash DC office at being on the corner of 7th Street and Pennsylvania Ave. (Pa Ave.) |
Malta Joe
Sergeant
Username: Malta
Post Number: 24
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 4:40 pm: |
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Statement of Richard Render -
I am a private in Company H 2nd Reg (illegible) -
now stationed at Fort Haggerty. I am personally acquainted with a soldier named Thomas Tifft who is now living at Alexandria (as) a clerk in a grocery - This man has a certificate of disability and discharge papers which as he told me are false and fraudulent, and were made out by a man named Tumblety having an office at the cor' of 7th St. + Pa. Av. - he, Thomas Tifft paying the said Tumblety $8.00 for getting up such false papers - I also know of a man named George Lorry who has employed the said Tumblety to get out his discharge papers and is to pay him $10.00 thereafter - Lorry is a private in Company H 2nd N.Y. (illegible)
I also state that there are parties in Georgetown who furnish soldiers with citizens clothes and forged papers, to enable them to desert. And that offer has been made to me to furnish me with clothes for the purpose of enabling me to desert -
Richard Render
This NARA document is listed as number 1769. The head page reads: Tumblety - Richard Render charges him with forged discharge papers. Richard Render and his letter explaining his case.
Everything was in handwriting. No dates were given. |
Malta Joe
Sergeant
Username: Malta
Post Number: 25
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 4:58 pm: |
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Forging disability papers for the purpose of issuing bogus military discharges during war time? Tumblety would face the gallows if convicted. If you're like me, your initial feelings are of somewhat disgust for the act of treason. Afterwards, your thoughts might focus into: "This Tumblety traveled to a nation's capitol, planting himself just blocks away from the White House. Then he brazenly + arrogantly flaunted authority by perpetrating treason right under the nose of the military." Be it to DC or London, Tumblety has a penchant for committing his atrocities in world capitols. Then in his true "Catch me when you can" spirit he knows when to run away.
I'm guessing the date of this soldier's testimony would be in the early summer of 1863. This would coincide with Tumblety fleeing the DC area to speak at anti-conscription meetings in NY during mid-July 1863. That was his way of publicly retaliating. Tumblety would escape to NY again in 1888, and he chose to get the last word in by diatribing in his 3rd autobiography.
But getting back to 1863, I could see the military's plight here. They'd want to keep men away from Tumblety's office while they investigate this allegation from Fort Haggerty. Yet, they don't want to tip a soldier off that by contacting Tumblety, a man could fraudulently buy his way out of the army. I could see a military dispatch reading: "The medical office at the corner of Pa. Ave + 7th St. is off limits to military personnel. Immoral literature is being distributed there." It makes one think if the immorality accusation was used as a smoke screen while they built their case against Tumblety on the forgery + treason issues.
Here is the news article I found in the Bancroft Library which I previously spoke of. Tumblety's name is mis-spelled at the start. |
Malta Joe
Sergeant
Username: Malta
Post Number: 26
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 5:16 pm: |
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The Chicago Tribune Page 5
Chicago, Illinois
Thursday November 22, 1888
DR. KUMBLETY'S CAREER - THE QUACK DOCTOR SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN CONCERNED IN THE WHITECHAPEL MURDERS
Boston, Mass Nov 21 (special) Dr. Kumblety, as the man arrested in London on suspicion of being connected with the Whitechapel murders calls himself, is well known in Boston. Said one today who knew the doctor: "The fellow's real name is Tumblety. About 33 years ago, there came to Boston from the Canadian provinces a man who engaged an office in the Horticultural Building on Tremont Street. He was a quack doctor, and during his stay in Boston used considerable ground gentian. I remember this fact for I sold him a large amount of goods from time to time. When I knew him I was a boy in my teens. His name was Dr. Tumblety. I remember him as a rather tall, fine - appearing individual. He was a most peculiar person. He wore pinned to his vest, several large medals which he said had been awarded him in various colleges where he had studied. He liked to display heavy jewelry. He had every appearance as a quack doctor. I should say he was about 30 years old when I knew him. He liked the slums, notwithstanding the fact that he always had plenty of money, and could have entered, if he had been inclined, into good society." |
Malta Joe
Sergeant
Username: Malta
Post Number: 27
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 5:30 pm: |
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The "ground gentian" spoken of is a bitter used for gastrointestinal purposes. The only other report of a Tumblety sighting in 1855 was of him doctoring in Detroit. This Tribune article puts Tumblety in downtown Boston's Tremont Street during 1855, and that location makes sense. Page 43 of Tumblety's 1872 autobiography placed him in Boston's Old Tremont Hotel. Tumblety always lived + doctored at locations that were extremely close to each other. (He was a man dedicated to repetition, and that's going to catch up with him some day during somebody's Whitechapel research.)
The Evening Star of 11-20-88 reports of Tumblety choosing to live poorly in 1869. An August 1875 letter to Henry Hall Caine from Birmingham embarassingly tells of Tumblety begging for 2 pounds of currency. The SF Chronicle's 11-20-88 article reports of Tumblety begging for a night's lodging in 1879. These poverish acts took place during a time period when Tumblety had over $100,000 of Bonds in a downtown NY safe deposit company, and he also had a large untouched deposit in the Hibernia Bank of SF.
The last sentence of this Chicago Tribune's article reveals this slumming compulsion wasn't some mid-life quirk. Tumblety was slumming back in 1855 Boston, and it's generally agreed that his age was between 22-25 at this time. His father was wealthy, yet Tumblety chose to "live like a weed" on the Rochester Canal while selling porn as a teenager. This slumming was a lifetime repetive compulsion for him. So he was well-accostomed to this type of life when he lived, doctored, and familiarized himself with the slums of Whitechapel in the 1880's.
I hope these findings lead on to better things for all of us.
A worn out Malta Joe is signing off!! |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 1145
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 3:57 pm: |
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Good stuff Malta Joe!
no wonder it was a worn out Malta Joe that signed off!
Cheers
Jenni
"Think things, not words." - O.W. Holmes jr
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Dan Norder
Inspector
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 318
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 6:18 pm: |
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Interesting speculation on the possible real reasons why soldiers were ordered away from seeing Tumblety. Makes sense. Thanks for sharing your research with us.
Dan Norder, editor, Ripper Notes
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Christopher T George
Chief Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 977
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 8:04 am: |
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Hi All
Here is a website for more on Ground Gentian. As noted, "The root is used medicinally because of its bitter principles which help to relieve numerous gastrointestinal problems. For example, it is used to treat poor appetite, digestive problems with insufficient secretion of gastric juices, impaired gastric emptying, flatulence, gastrointestinal cramping and atony and impaired bile secretion." Might we thus conclude that Dr. T was prey to flatulence? Whooh! Here comes the fragrant, flatulent Dr. Frank Tumblety!
All the best
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
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Ira Bloomfield
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 8:59 pm: |
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This is a slight test to see if I can get onto the Board again. I have been unable to do so for nearly four weeks.
I think the "Baker" mentioned in the record group 94 of the Turner Baker Papers is General Lafayette C. Baker, a notorious spy master of the Union army during the Civil War. Although he was considered corrupt, Baker would be concerned with Tumblety's activities in Alexandria. Although the town of Alexandria was part of the District of Columbia, it was in Virginia, and had to be occupied in 1861. An early casualty of the war, Colonel Elmer Ellsworth of New York, was shot when taking a Confederate flag down in a raid in May 1861. Alexandria would be a center of Confederate spying activity during the Civil War.
Jeff |
CB
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:32 pm: |
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Hi Malta,
Great stuff on Tumblety. Your post are interesting as well as informative. I have one question and it may be irrelivant due to Tumblety,s arrest in June of 1889 for assult. Everytime I go to the Tumblety boards. I check out the thread that Chris Scott [Another person who doese excellent Reseach.] started and has gone virtually unnoticed. Chris post about the arrest of a man named Frank Townsend and another man by the name of Micheal Sulivan. The two were arrested in early January 1889. They were described as two tramps who were begging on the streets. They were sentenced to jail for six months. I no this overlaps the date of Tumblety,s arrest for assult and I am not sure how the law works as far as early release. Reading your post I am struck by the fact that others claim Tumblety liked to live in the slums and would actually beg for money. Do you think that it is possible that Tumblety could of spent some time in Jail in early 1889? If so the fact the he would of been arrested so soon after making his way to Newyork with a partner might indicate that he had one when first arriveing in Newyork. Just maybe when he fled Whitechaple.
All the best,CB |
Malta Joe
Sergeant
Username: Malta
Post Number: 30
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 2:37 pm: |
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Thanks for the compliment, CB. I appreciate it. Yes, I've read that 1-3-89 Olean Democrat item which Chris found. Taking a look at the Brooklyn Daily Eagles' 1-28-89 article, Tumblety had lived in a Brooklyn boarding house from Jan 18 - Jan 27, 1889. The location was at 204 Washington Street. (Tumblety visited 209 Washington Street on many occasions in 1883 to visit his friend Martin McGarry, so he was familiar with this neighborhood.) Tumblety ended up abruptly leaving the boarding house with a young companion after paying his rent from a large wad of bills. All this occurred just a few weeks after two tramps were arrested + sentenced to "six months in the penitentiary."
Well, if I had to put a wager on what happened, my money would go on the two tramps being Tumblety + his sidekick, and that the quack paid some fine to get them both out of the jail sentence. I just don't think that this story would have been news worthy if it didn't involve Tumblety. Plus, do you think that the "chief of police" is going to spend his time making vagrancy arrests? Beat cops would do that, and it wouldn't make the papers. So that's where my money is. (Of course, I liked Smarty Jones in the Belmont so what do I know about gambling?) Tumblety also paid for self-advertisements in the 2-2-89 Brooklyn Daily Eagle and the 2-7-89 Olean Democrat so he probably wasn't doing any jail time during this period.
Jeff's identification on Baker was terrific. I hope that General's memoirs are preserved somewhere. The NARA material was all handwritten, and I transcribed it the best I could. It is possible though that the name of the second Tumblety-influenced soldier was George Torry. I typed up George Lorry, but it's is difficult for me to figure out the first letter of the surname. Currently I'm in the process of trying to find out the final fate of these two young deserters. It doesn't look good for them though.
Joe |
Malta Joe
Sergeant
Username: Malta
Post Number: 31
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 5:31 pm: |
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The mail has just arrived. Good stuff in it. It turns out that Private Richard Render spelled the deserter's name who went to Alexandria, "TIFFT" when it should have been TIFT. That slowed things down for us. Here's what we got now:
Private Thomas Tift, enlisted 11-15-61 at Lowville, New York. Age at time of enlistment: 21
There were not hits for George Lorry, but sonofagun George Torry did connect. Corporal George Torry enlisted 5-9-61 at Cohoes, New York. Enlistment age: 19
Neither soldier obtained his officer's commission, neither was a POW, and neither was wounded in battle. (I wonder if this was because they spent the war in the Guard House?) The one thing that I'm very happy to report is that the paperwork I've just received shows that they both survived the war. As of now, it looks like they weren't executed for desertion. Maybe their youth was taken into account. It's not that I approve of desertion attempts, it's just that I think we're dealing with a couple of home-sick kids here who didn't stand a chance under Tumblety's control. Their wallets didn't do so well either.
Anybody think that they escaped the hangman by promising to be witnesses for any possible future military prosecutions against Tumblety? Just a thought. There is more to search here especially if there is public access to any existing Court Martial records on these two. I wonder what they could have testified to which made the NARA create a Tumblety file and retain it? |
Malta Joe
Sergeant
Username: Malta
Post Number: 32
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 1:42 pm: |
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The last of the basic info for our three soldiers has arrived this morning. Here it is:
Private Richard Render. Enlisted at Antwerp, NY. 10-12-61. Age at time of enlistment: 28
I had a feeling that he'd be older than the other two. Sadly, Richard was wounded in battle during the war. He survived though.
CB, sorry if I sounded too confusing toward the end of yesterday's posting concerning the police chief's arrest of the two tramps. The point that I was trying to get across was if this arrest didn't involve Tumblety, then I don't think it would have made the news, and the arresting officer would probably not have been the Chief of Police. But since the Police Chief did get involved, and the press were called in to write it up, I'm more inclined to wager that the Frank Townsend mentioned was probably Tumblety. Just an inclination, but there really isn't much to go on.
Finally, I looked up an old news item where Tumblety would flash around a bogus honorable discharge paper that he forged for himself. You can't say the man didn't lead by example. Of course, he was never in the military so he can't be accused of desertion!
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CB
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 7:47 pm: |
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Hi Joe,
I believe that the Newyork police would of been aware of Tumblety's alias. I think Scotland yard informed the NYPD that Tumblety was fleeing to Newyork under the name Frank Townsend. I feel the arrest of Townsend may of been an attempt to get Tumblety off the streets. I am not sure about the law but six months seems stiff for begging on the street. The US goverment must of been interestd in Tumblety and his alleged connection to the ripper murders.
I have a question Joe and I apologise for getting off topic. Why do you believe that the british press did not pick up on any Tumblety stories when he was arguable the most famous ripper suspect world wide at the time. Is it possible that the newyork press sesationalised Tumblety and his connection with the Whitechaple murders.
Your friend,CB |
CB
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 12:20 am: |
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Hi Joe,
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post. I do not think you were the only one to lay some money down on Smarty Jones but when wagering on the horses you have to factor in the human element. The jockey,trainer,owner and the bookie However I see a conspiracy were ever I go.
If Tumblety was the ripper then the fact that he had a companion so soon after fleeing Whitechaple may suggest he had the same or at least a companion while in Whitechaple. Could this mean there might have been two working the streets of Whitechaple. Have you came across a name for young companion shareing lodging with Tumblety in Newyork?
I can only hope that all the good work that you are doing in connection with Tumblety is going to lead to a book. I think his life story would be interesting even if he is not connected to the ripper murders.
Your friend,CB |
Malta Joe
Sergeant
Username: Malta
Post Number: 33
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 9:45 pm: |
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Hi CB. Your accurate belief that the NY Police knew all about "Frank Townsend" and his upcoming arrival was confirmed by the fact that two detective sergeants plus a dozen news reporters were waiting for the French vessel at its NY dock on 12-2-88. I recommend the NY Herald's 12-4-88 article and the Williamsport Sunday Grit's 12-9-88 article for reading about this. As for your question on why the British press didn't pick up on this story, I'd defer to the 1996 Stephen Ryder - Stewart Evans interview that's posted in the authors section of this casebook. The final three sentences to Stewart's response to question #6 still holds water even today.
Your comment is true about Tumblety's life story being noteworthy whether or not he was the murderer. It was a great line in Stewart's book when he said that "Tumblety retains, even in death, a capacity to astound." As for your "future book" remark, I think everyone should hold off on any novel or movie for awhile on this. It would only tell half a story, and there is too much material left to be found. (Though I personally think John Cleese would make a great Tumblety!!) I'll get back to your other questions in a bit. |
Malta Joe
Sergeant
Username: Malta
Post Number: 34
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 10:12 pm: |
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Ok CB, I'll tackle that question of yours about the American press sensationalizing Tumblety's connection with the Whitechapel murders. Well, if this was sensationalizing, they sure didn't do enough of it for my liking. I'd like to get a hold of that Buck's County Gazette reporter who in his article of 12-13-88 claimed that "Tumblety talked about the butcheries and dropped mysterious hints." He never specified what this was, and it's nerve-racking!! If withholding info constitutes sensationalizing, then it leaves much to be desired.
I can't argue with your thinking that the U.S. Gov would be interested in this matter, and no I haven't come across the name of Tumblety's companion who left with him from his Washington St. hideout in Brooklyn. There is nothing to go on to conclude he was the other tramp arrested with "Frank Townsend" a few weeks earlier.
Yes, I agree that a six month jail sentence for "begging" sounds fishy, and I'd add that so does being arrested, tried, convicted, and sentenced all in one day!! It sure sounded like that Police Chief wanted Tumblety out of his Erie County Precinct right away. It wouldn't surprise me if it was one of those "Pay a $60 fine or serve a 60 day sentence" sort of things. The 11-19-88 NY Herald reported that Tumblety once did a little jail time in the Ludlow Street Jail because he wouldn't fork over some money. So I suppose it's possible he could have done a day or two of this Jan '89 jail sentence before purchasing his freedom and heading to Brooklyn.
On your questions if he had Whitechapel companions. Yes, he did. I believe Tumblety's most brilliant move came on Nov 13, 1888. He knew he was a top Ripper suspect then, and he cleverly anticipated that the Central Criminal Court would set a huge bail upon him the following day for his misdemeanors. Tumblety recruited two of his companions, and they worked together to organize his finances. He needed the money to make bail the next day and to cover his escape expenses the following week. The recruits came through for him with the bail money on Friday, and when the Old Bailey postponed Tumblety's trial the following week, it was bye bye Charlie.
And finally, your million dollar question about if he had an accomplice to these murders. (I love a tough straight forward question, CB!) My answer is no. I feel he was too smart to put himself in that risk. Tumblety would gamble on his own abilities, and not rely on a nineteen year old to keep his mouth shut. Take it easy.
Malta Joe
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CB
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 5:25 am: |
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Hi Joe,
Thanks for your responce. John Cleese is to likeable to play Tumblety. I did not know the man but I do not think he was a good guy. Keep up your good work.
Your friend,CB |
Malta Joe
Sergeant
Username: Malta
Post Number: 48
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 5:49 pm: |
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Ho Ho Ho from Santa Joe. Here is an early Christmas surprise. My request for the military records of Tift + Torry has been quickly answered by the NARA. Civil War records aren't under the realm of the Privacy Act, and my only interest in reporting this is because both of these soldiers had an alleged involvement with a future Whitechapel suspect. With that said, here is the synopsis of Private Thomas Tift's military record:
Tift was a 21 year old farmer from Wilma, NY when he enlisted into the Union Army on Nov 15, 1861. He enlisted for a three year stint, and he was the cook for Company I, 94th Regiment, NY Infantry. He was present at all listed Company roll calls through July 1862. On Aug 7, 1862 he was admitted to Mt. Pleasant General Hospital in the District of Columbia for an undisclosed illness. Later he would be transferred to a place called Convalescent Camp, Virginia near the city of Alexandria.
All of Company I's roll calls from Aug 7, 1862 - March 9, 1863 has Tift listed as "absent-sick in the hospital." On March 10, 1863 Tift was transferred to Company C of his same Regiment for "consolidation" reasons. All of Company C's roll calls list Tift as "absent-sick in the hospital" from March 11, 1863 - May 2, 1864. Up until this time, nothing was stated which supported Private Richard Render's accusations. Tumblety was known to be doctoring in Brooklyn in May '64, and he had been out of the DC area for almost a year.
On May 3, 1864 the following appeared on Company C's "Company Morning Report" concerning Tift. "From absent-sick to deserted. He is known to be out of the service and there is no record of his discharge."
The Company Muster Roll of May-June 1864 reports: "He has supposed to have deserted from Convalescent Camp, Va; not heard of since Feb 28, 1863." All future roll calls have Tift listed as a deserter from Convalescent Camp, Va on Feb 28, 1863 except one. The July 1, 1864 "Descriptive List of Deserters" have Tift deserting one week later on March 7th at Annapolis, Maryland.
The discouraging part of all this is the "date of arrest" box. It's empty. Tift got away. There is nothing which shows of his capture. The final entry on July 18, 1865 has Company C's Muster Roll simply stating that Tift was a deserter from Con. Camp, Va. For those of us who had hoped Tift was arrested, Court Martialed, and had spilled the beans on Tumblety, we were left disappointed. Nailing this Tumblety is just as hard in 2004 as it was during the 19th century. That elusive creep is getting on my nerves now! I've got some Torry info coming up shortly. |
Malta Joe
Sergeant
Username: Malta
Post Number: 49
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 6:03 pm: |
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Private George Torry was still in the Union Army when Render accused him of setting up a future shady deal with Tumblety. The military should have had no trouble getting Torry in their clutches. Render's accusations on Tift sure looked to be legitimate, so Torry was a sitting duck for the military. Reading Torry's military record was expected to be very revealing. On Nov 16, 2004 the NARA searched, but reported to me that they were unable to locate the military records of Private George Torry. You can draw your own conclusions.
The final analysis on this focuses on Render's statement which says, "(Tift) has a certificate of disability and discharge papers which he told me are false and fraudulent." Why would a sick soldier in a Convalescent Camp be in need of a phony medical discharge paper from Tumblety? I can come up with one scenario that might fit:
Tift was healthy enough to be released from his six month hospital stay, and he was going to be ordered to return to active duty on March 7, 1863 at Annapolis, Maryland. He escaped from the camp in Virginia on Feb 28th and headed for Tumblety's office in Wash DC. Here he purchased his forged paperwork. Tift then blabbed to Render and took off to Alexandria with Tumblety's bogus medical disability + discharge documents. When Tift failed to report to Company I on March 7th, the Army knew something was up. They transferred him to Company C three days later, and the remaining military logs either have him deserting from Convalescent Camp, Va on Feb 28, 1863 or from Annapolis, Maryland one week later. |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 515
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 7:18 pm: |
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Hi all,
I have been considering the matter of Private Tift's history from August 7, 1862 to July 1864, when he was posted as a deserter. It helps to keep in mind what the situation was like at this stage of the war in the east. Tift was probably in McClellan's Army of the Potomac in the Peninsula Campaign up to the Seven Days Battle in the month of July of 1862. After McClellan's men finished their "change of base" (read retreat) at Harrison Landing, Virginia, the Union men rested (despite Lincoln's attempts to get McClellan back on the offensive). It was at this moment that Tift gets sick. Unless it turned out he was wounded, I take it he had some type of emotional collapse. While recuperating, McClellan was replaced by General John Pope, who would suffer a total rout at the battle of Second Bull Run [Second Manassas] at the end of August 1862. Casualties were high, but three weeks later McClellan (reinstated by popular demand) fought Lee to a stand-off at Antietam Creek (Sharpsburg, Maryland), in the bloodiest day of the war. McClellan was relieved for the last time in November 1862, and replaced by General Ambrose Burnside. Burnside was beaten badly at Marye's Heights, at the battle of Fredericksburg, Virginia by Lee in December 1862. The causalties were rather one sided, in that the idiotic Burnside kept sacrificing his troops in frontal assaults against Lee's entrenched men under Longstreet. Burnside was replaced (by popular demand) by Joseph Hooker, who would plan an operation in Virginia in May 1863, that resulted in the greatest victory of Lee's career with Stonewall Jackson - the battle of Chancellorsville (in which Jackson was mortally wounded). The casualty rates in this period were incredibly heavy for the North, and for someone like Tift it may have been sufficient to convince him not to return to
the front. This does not explain how he met Tumblety, but it does suggest what led to his final decision.
Jeff |
Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1170
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 7:45 pm: |
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Hi Jeff and Joe
All exciting information that helps to shed another light on the enigmatic and slippery Dr. Tumblety. Thank you to you both.
All my best
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
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Malta Joe
Detective Sergeant
Username: Malta
Post Number: 51
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 1:59 pm: |
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Thanks for the positive feedback, guys. It was difficult to sort out Tift's military record, and I was hoping my recent postings wouldn't come out too confusing for everyone.
Jeff, you got a big compliment from my eldest brother who has a teaching credential in American History. He is a big Civil War nut, and he really liked your last message. He told me that "sideburns" were named after the General Burnside you mentioned, and that "hookers" were truly named after Joseph Hooker who apparently wasn't secretive about the company he kept.
As for Tift, he was a member of the 94th Regiment, NY Infantry. Type in "The Belle Jefferson Rifles" on google or any engine and you can follow the combat activity for the 94th. Tift + the 94th's first major battle was going to occur at "The Battle of Cedar Mountain" in Virginia. Pope did lead them into this fight, but two days before this Aug 9, 1862 battle, Tift went to the hospital. (Being the company cook, that probably disheartened his fellow infantrymen!) Tift would remain in the hospital until he deserted six months later on Feb 28, 1862. He was never wounded in battle, and it doesn't look like he even participated in one.
Jeff, feel free to contact me at maltajoe940@yahoo.com if you'd like to borrow these military records. I'm all done with them, and maybe you can read into them more than I can. I also got a question to ask you.
Finally, there is some hope about getting Torry's records still!! Render + Torry were both in Company H, 2nd Reg of the NY ARTILLERY. I've been mistakenly directing the NARA to search in the NY INFANTRY roster. So I'll try again! |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 518
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 10:20 pm: |
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Hi Malta Joe,
I will try to contact you in the next day or so.
Jeff Bloomfield |
Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1174
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 9:08 am: |
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Hi Joe
As I understand it, you might be correct about "sideburns" getting their name from General Ambrose Burnside... that having been said, sideburns were a fashion from Regency days onward... what were they called then? 
As for General Hooker being the reason for the term "hooker" for a prostitute, I think that may be much more debatable. In fact, one explanation I have heard is that locally here in Baltimore, the old seaport area of Fell's Point, as with other ports, was rife with prostitutes, and Fell's Point was built on a "hook" of land. So, yer takes yer pick of which explanation you like. . . 
All the best
Chris George
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
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Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 520
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 9:30 pm: |
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Hi Chris and Malta Joe,
There is a lithograph/cartoon from the 1850s in New York showing woman (presumably prostitutes) attracting well dressed men at night. It is entitled "Hooking a victim!". It is possible that this is referring to the prostitute "fishing" for a John with her own lure and thus "hooking" the victim. In any case, the word "hook" and prostitute are thrown together before General Hooker appears.
So now we have three possible derivations for that word.
Best wishes
Jeff |
Dan Norder
Inspector
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 417
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 12:53 am: |
|
I think Jeff's probably got it. The fishing metaphor is also how Internet trolls got their "troll" name, which incidentally is another Victorian era word for prostitutes... though the "trollop" form proved more memorable.
Dan Norder, editor, Ripper Notes
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Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1183
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 3:33 pm: |
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Hi all--
Dan, you may have nailed the origin.
On http://www.wordorigins.org/wordorh.htm:
Hooker
Many ascribe an eponymous origin to this term, meaning prostitute. General "Fighting Joe" Hooker may have been many things, but he did not lend his name to the oldest profession. Hooker commanded the Army of the Potomac for five months in 1863. His men were a rowdy bunch and his headquarters was a den of iniquity. Charles Francis Adams, Jr., grandson of John Quincy Adams and great-grandson of John Adams, said Hooker's headquarters was:
a place where no self-respecting man liked to go, and no decent woman could go. It was a combination of barroom and brothel.
While Fighting Joe may have not been a man of upstanding moral character, the word hooker was used to mean prostitute at least a full fifteen years prior to the start of the Civil War in 1860. N.E. Eliason in Tarheel Talk records that the term was used in North Carolina as early as 1845. John Russell Bartlett in his 1859 edition of Dictionary of Americanisms also lists the term.
Some possible origins:
Bartlett, in his 1859 work, speculates that the term originates from Corlear's Hook, a disreputable section of New York City, but most modern sources discount this as unlikely for lack of evidence.
Hooker is also British slang for a thief. A prostitute's penchant for supplementing her income with little thievery on the sly could have led to the common usage of the term.
Hooker is also slang for an old boat (from the Dutch hoecker-schip, or fishing boat). It could have gone the way of tramp, as in tramp steamer.
The most probable explanation is that a prostitute is one that hooks or snares clients.
But we should not let old Fighting Joe completely off the hook, as it were. Civil War historian Bruce Catton writes:
[Although] the term 'hooker' did not originate during the Civil War, it certainly became popular then. During these war years, Washington developed a large [red-light district] somewhere south of Constitution Avenue. This became known as Hooker's Division in tribute to the proclivities of General Joseph Hooker and the name has stuck ever since.
So like Thomas Crapper, Fighting Joe became, through an accident of history to become associated with a word. His actions undoubtedly helped popularize the word, but the origin is not eponymous.
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
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Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 521
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 9:49 pm: |
|
Hi Chris and Dan,
On the lithograph entitled "Hooking a Victim." It is owned by the Museum of the City of New York, according to the book I have that includes it: INCREDIBLE NEW YORK: HIGH LIFE AND LOW LIFE OF THE LAST HUNDRED YEARS (New York: Random House, 1951) by Lloyd Morris. It was created by Serrell and Perkins in 1850. The picture appears on page 45.
Re: "Fightin' Joe" Hooker - his taste in booze and buying popularity with his soldiers by winking at their red light activities explains why he deserves getting "hooked" to the term that he's recalled for. As a soldier he was a good fighter when in subsidiary posts, but he was a loud mouth who thought he was better equipt to handle the Army of the Potomac. He certainly was better than Ambrose Burnside but (to be fair to Burnside) the latter had a really humble view of his talents - he was pushed into the post-McClellan leadership because of his non-political ambitions and his support of the policies of the Lincoln Administration. Hooker's greatest achievement in his term as leader was to create the cavalry wing of the Army of the Potomac (McClellan, despite his great abilities as an organizer, never spent enough time on it). As a result, despite the humiliation of his defeat at Chancellorsville,
Hooker was able to see (while still commanding the Army of the Potomac) it's moral victory over J.E.B. Stuart's cavalry at Brandy Station in June 1863. Stuart barely kept control of the field in this, the greatest all cavalry battle of the war. [Incidentally, it unnerved the usually self-controlled Stuart, and helps explain his terrible mistakes in charge of the cavalry in the Gettysburg Campaign that helped cause Lee's defeat there.] Hooker managed, during the Chattanooga Campaign in September 1863, to redeem his reputation as a warrior in his capture of the Confederate positions at Lookout Mountain, in "the Battle Above the Clouds". However, in the campaign of General Sherman leading to the capture of Atlanta, General James McPherson was killed. McPherson was commander of the Army of the Tennessee, and second to Sherman in the command structure. Because he was formerly commander of the Army of the Potomac, Hooker felt he was entitled to replace McPherson. Instead ( wisely) Sherman replaced McPherson with the commander of the Army of the Cumberland, George Henry Thomas.
Hooker resigned his army command in anger. Nobody tried to talk him out of it. Thomas, a quiet, inteligent leader (not a boaster like Hooker) won the three most complete routs of the Civil War at Mill Springs, Kentucky (January 1862), Missionary Ridge (at Chattanooga in September 1863), and at Nashville, Tennessee (December 1864). In the last battle the Confederate Army under John Bell Hood literally disintegrated. It was the most complete victory of the war.
By the way, while Hooker is recalled by "prostitutes", and Burnside's whiskers ensure his memory (even though his name was reversed), McClellan too left his name to an item - he invented the saddle that is still popularly called "the McClellan".
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Neil K. MacMillan
Detective Sergeant
Username: Wordsmith
Post Number: 147
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 9:50 am: |
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Hi Jeff;
Actually the term hooker for a protitute dates to earlier times and refers to the Corlear's hook area of New York city which could have give Whitechapel a run for its money. I suspect "Fighting Joe" would have secretly liked the thought that his name might be the root of that particular use of the word.
As to the McClellan saddle, a friend assures me it is a comfortable ride but looking at it makes me want to double up on the athletic support and cup before hopping on a horse so adorned.
Kindest regards, Neil |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 886
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 2:03 pm: |
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HI Neil,
Knowing Hooker, he probably would have enjoyed the notoriety of the term's connection to himself. He enjoyed the reputation of being a hard drinkin', hard livin' man (although his pictures suggest too much hard drinkin' - he does look pie-eyed too much of the time).
As to the saddle, I have never seen it. As I have never had any desire to ride a horse, I never had any worries about supports and cups, but I believe they would have been wise items to be wearing in any case.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Neil K. MacMillan
Detective Sergeant
Username: Wordsmith
Post Number: 148
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 12:59 pm: |
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The saddle bears a hole in the middle that looks as if body parts could be pinched in it but as I don't ride either I have no first hand proof of that.
More to the point, Tumblety's alleged treason stems from a case of mistaken identity. Apparentl;y in choosing an moniker for himself (Most likely to avoid either the draft or indictment for an unrelated crime) Tumblety had the bad luck to choose the name Blackburn. Unfortunately, the man in charge of investigating Linciln's assassination, LAfayette Baker, happened to be looking for a man named Blackburn in connection with the murder of our 16th president.
The wonder is,given the tenor of the times how Tumblety managed to avoid gettnig his neck stretched right then and there. Kindest regards, Neil |
Steve Swift
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 6:57 pm: |
|
Hooker - quite correct,not invented during the war but came into popular use due to the fact that everyone in the army reffered to Joe's camp follwers as 'Hookers' i.e Hookers women.
Just like baseball, made popular because Abner Doubleday was a Union Genral.So many young men from all over the North came into contact with these things that they of course spread all across America.
It is highly unlikely that Tumblety would have faced a charge of treason due to his forgeries because they would have had to have hung an awful lot of people as the practise was rife all across the north.Just like the bounty jumpers(who would take money to enlist in someones place then desert and do it all over again)it was just one of many 'scams' being pulled to stay out of the war. |
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