| Author |
Message |
    
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 342
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 8:23 am: |       |
Hi guys
Today I found a very full, illustrated account of the murders in The News, from Frederick, Maryland which I am in the process of transcribing and will be sending to the Press Reports section. Two things interested me in particular.
1) It mentioned a nickname for Stride which I had not seen before - "Hippy Lip Annie." What the term "hippy lip" means I have no idea. the section reads:
2) There is an illustration of one of the murder sites and the finding of the body but I cannot place which one it is meant to be. Any opinions welcome.
Full article will be posted asap
Chris |
Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 2791
Registered: 10-1997
| | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 8:30 am: | |
Hi Chris -
The nickname "Hippy Lip Annie" seems to have derived from the American press - there are two other reports I know of that call her by that name, one from Boston and one from Washington D.C.. (on the Casebook, keyword search "hippy"). The name was also used in the early American publications on the case, including Leather Apron; Or, the Horrors of Whitechapel (1888) and, I believe, The History of the Whitechapel Murders (1888), which themselves probably relied on the local American press for their research.
The illustration above doesn't seem to match any of the murder scenes as far as I know - it seems to show a woman murdered underneath a shop awning of some sort.
Stephen P. Ryder, Editor
Casebook: Jack the Ripper |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 344
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 8:43 am: | |
Thanks for that Stephen:-)
My thoughts exactly on the illustration- it seems to show either an awning of some sort or a low hanging roof, possibly a shed or outbuilding.
Regards
Chris |
Christopher T George
Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 262
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 10:18 am: | |
Hi, Chris & Stephen:
Noticeable also in that press report is that they misrepresent the street name as "Berners Street" instead of "Berner Street." There was a "Berners Street" in the West End but not the East End. An easy enough misspelling but interesting to note. As I recall, the furrier Martin Kosminski, a presumed relative of Aaron Kosminski, had premises in Berners Street. I also agree about the oddity of the alleged murder scene in that sketch. Some artist's license there I presume! 
All my best
Chris |
Martin Fido
Detective Sergeant
Username: Fido
Post Number: 114
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 8:18 am: | |
That nickname "Hippy Lip" (which I'd never heard before) is very interesting, given the pronounced visible swelling on Stride's lip which can be seen in the mortuary photograph. I'd always taken it to be the result of a recent blow.
All the best,
Martin F |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 186
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 9:27 am: | |
Hello All
I recall reading many years ago that Liz Stride had a deformity of the lip(s). I will try to find the source.
I guess that there could also be a sexual connotation implied by the nickname but I won't speculate on that.
Best
Gary |
Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 204
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 10:27 am: | |
Hi all,
Just something to throw into the pot.
Didnt Liz have some sort of STD during her life in Sweden ?
Could the deformed lip be a result ?
Just a thought.
Monty
 |
Andrew Spallek
Detective Sergeant
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 58
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 1:10 pm: | |
Martin, et al --
I had also always thought the lip deformity to be the result of a blow or injury at the time of her death.
There is the Princes Alice story, remember, where Liz claimed to have been kicked in the mouth (she also had teeth missing, as most indigent of the time). It is possible she added the "kick" to the Princes Alice story to explain her demformity.
The drawing in the article seems to be a figment of an American artist's imagination. Probably having no idea of the actual appearance, he draw what he imagined England to be like, complete with a low, thatched-roof building.
Andy
|
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 191
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 2:11 pm: | |
Hi Monty
Liz was a registered prostitute in her native Sweden by the age of 22 and was treated twice for venereal diseases. She also, according to the books, gave birth to a still-born daughter. It is not impossible that STDs were also treated in England but the records may not have been as closely kept. Liz appears to be the most confirmed prostitute of the ripper victims, having been a prostitute early in life and falling back into it after her marriage failed.
It may be possible that her lip looks deformed due to herpes. I believe this causes the outbreak of blisterlike sores.
Best
Gary |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 192
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 2:21 pm: | |
P.S. I asked my wife, who is a chemist/pharmacist, and she said there is no way to be certain but the picture could show a pronounced, untreated herpetic lession. |
Robert Charles Linford
Chief Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 519
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 2:46 pm: | |
Hi all
The picture of the murder site is almost identical to one in the Sourcebook, where it's captioned "A contemporary sketch of homeless women taken from the 'Illiustrated London News' in October 1888 : 'Outcasts sleeping in sheds in Whitechapel'."
Robert |
Joan O'Liari
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 7:34 pm: | |
Chris; I wondered if you have read this article I found at this site
/link{http://magpie_ix.tripod.com/ripper/DTELEGRAPH/dtele06.html}
It refers to Liz first as "Happy Lip Annie," and then later as "Hippy" Lip Annie.
Perhaps the typo of "Hippy" instead of "Happy" Lip (which makes more sense as a nickname for her) was perpetuated through the other papers.
They also stress more about the pilot coat found in Kelly's room as leaning towards the sailor or boatman theory.
There are some different angles in that report that may not be entirely accurate, but it is like looking at another point of view.
Take Care
Joan
|
Joan O'Liari
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 3:05 pm: | |
AHA!! Please see my post ;Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 7:25 pm on the Liz Stride;the murder thread: Regarding the connection of cachous/ oral sex/ strange lips / and the name Lipski.
The sketch appears in the Jack the Ripper Companion and is described as " A contemporary sketch of homeless women taken from the Illustrated London News in October 1888; "Outcasts sleeping in sheds in Whitechapel"". Such a shed was once located behind Macarthy's, and it was said that Catharine Eddows had once slept there, but the shed was demolished.
This may have been linked to the Miller's Court murder due to this reference.
Joan
|
Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 205
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 11:17 am: | |
Gary,
So 'Herpy lip Annie' is possible ?
Thanks for that....and thanks to the Mussus also.
Monty
|
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 384
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 12:06 pm: | |
Many thanks for the comments on the illustration - illuminating and helpful
C
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Neal Shelden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 65
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 4:06 pm: | |
A Mr North of Poplar knew Liz as ‘Mother Gum’ on account of a peculiarity of the top lip, which, when she laughed, showed the whole of the upper gum. Illustrated Police News for the 27th October 1888
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Gary Alan Weatherhead
Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 241
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 10:18 am: | |
Hi All
Ah-herpes, the gift that keeps on giving.
Best
Gary |
Joan O'Liari
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 12:32 pm: | |
Hi Neal, Gary,
During the examination of Liz Stride's body, the Doctor also noted "healing sores". I would say that Liz had an active case of herpes or syphilis going on when she was killed.
The nickname Chris has uncovered is very important! It changes the scenario of the assailant calling out Lipski, because now it makes it more likely that it was directed at Liz.
Knowing the British sense of humour, she would have earned the nickname of Happy Lip, and it is not a long jump to go to using Lipski as a rather nasty type of put-down due to the recent murder case of the real Lipski.
I asked "Faye" about the possibility of a Swedish term sounding like Lipski, but she said there was not. A dead end. (Even if Michael Kidney could not speak Swedish I thought he might have a pet name for her that she told him about, for example; "My daddy used to call me his little leibchen" or something like that).This idea didn't pan out though.
I guess what I am trying to get at, is that the assailant was someone she knew well, and that giving someone the herpes was a good reason to piss them off enough to get revenge.(Perhaps this is the origin of the "You would say anything but your prayers" scene, as she ensures her clients that she is clean.)
Another story I read about the prostitute who was murdered, who had rampant venereal disease, had told her friend she didn't care who she gave it to because it "was the men who gave it to me in the first place".
The bruises on her shoulders were more prominent on the right side, indicating right handedness of the assailant, however when the Doctor says that he had "watched and seen on two occasions since", it is not clear which cases he is talking about.
After Liz there is Catherine Eddowes and Mary Kelly, but I can't find any reference to shoulder bruises on those cases, only facial bruising. Can anyone clarify those remarks?
Joan |
Robert Charles Linford
Chief Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 646
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 5:40 pm: | |
Hi Joan
We know that Phillips was at the mortuary at least twice. Maybe he popped in a third time just to check up.
Robert |
Glenn L Andersson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 118
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 7:08 pm: | |
Hi all,
I have totally missed this thread, and I have for a long time wondered about the deformity on her lip shown on the photo -- and now I see you discussing it! I think it is strange that it isn't mentioned in the post mortem description of her body and her injuries. I haven't seen anything about it the witness testimonies by those who knew her either.
I think some of you here could be right, though, that it could be a result of a possible venereal disease or a recent blow.
In Scandinavia (and I think the rest of the world as well, since these were the days before the breakthrough of antibiotics in the treatment) syphilis were treated with quicksilver and there were three ways to do it, and for the most part these were combined:
a) inhaling fumes containing quicksilver
b) having the body rubbed in with quicksilver salve
c) being forced to drink a solution of quicksilver and water, sweeten with syrup
The treatment was very painful and not all survived the side-effects. The most common one was quicksilver poisining, where the first signs were a rich occurence of saliva and a loss of teeth. Then it strikes the muscles and organs.
This "treatment" wasn't replaced by antibiotics until the 1920:s in Scandinavia.
I can't say for sure if the deformity is caused by a venearal desease -- I think the doctors would not only have noticed it, but also diagnosed it, since the indicatoirs of syfilis were quite recogizable, at least in its second stage (with the occurence of flesh wounds and open sores), and the disease common, but I would be a fool to rule it out anyway.
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Robert Charles Linford
Chief Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 648
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 7:45 pm: | |
Hi Glenn, Joan
As Gary says, Liz had VD in Sweden. Also, Martin Fido says that Kidney was in Whitechapel Workhouse Infirmary the following June with syphilis, though of course he could have picked this up from any prostitute.
Glenn, we don't seem to have a really detailed doctors' report on Liz. But we do have Phillips's PM on McKenzie, and in that he mentions syphilis. Maybe mention of Stride's syphilis is in the (lost) detailed report on her.
Robert |
Glenn L Andersson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 120
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 8:05 pm: | |
Hi Robert,
Well if she did have VD in Sweden (since I'm quite new to the case, it's still hard to remember or collect all the facts necessary), there is a strong possibility that the deformity shown is a sign of syphilis either in the second stage, or remains of the first stage (with skin rashes or similar signs).
"But we do have Phillips's PM on McKenzie, and in that he mentions syphilis. Maybe mention of Stride's syphilis is in the (lost) detailed report on her."
Not impossible, Robert. Could be, could be.
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Joan O'Liari
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 5:53 pm: | |
Hi Robert; So you mean that he was referring to the bruising as it pertained to the single victim, having seen the body several times since, and not to other victims having had the same bruising. Thank you for clearing that up, it does make sense to me now.
Joan |
Robert Charles Linford
Chief Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 653
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 4:28 pm: | |
Hi Joan
At the Stride inquest on Wed 3rd Oct Phillips speaks of a blueish discolouration "which I have watched and have seen on two occasions since." The first time would have been the post mortem on Monday. Phillips then says "On Tuesday I again went to the mortuary to observe the marks on the shoulder." So I'm not sure when the other time he saw them was, if he is to have seen them three times by Wednesday.
Phillips was present at the Eddowes autopsy, but I can't find any reference to such blueish discolourations on her body.
Maybe Phillips went twice to the mortuary on the Tuesday? He seems to have liked buzzing around, because on Friday 5th he says "after the last examination, in company with Dr. Blackwell and Dr. Brown, I went to the mortuary and examined more carefully the roof of the mouth." And he twice returned to the body of McKenzie after the PM on her.
Robert |
