Liz Stride- The murder

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Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post Archive through July 16, 2003 Andrew Spallek 25  1  7-16-03  2:10 pm Archive through July 18, 2003 Robert Charles Linfo 25  1  7-18-03  4:35 pm Archive through July 22, 2003 Gary Alan Weatherhea 25  1  7-22-03  1:58 pm Archive through July 25, 2003 Robert Charles Linfo 25  1  7-25-03  2:55 pm Archive through September 23, 2003 Robert Charles Linfo 25  1  9-23-03  5:25 am Archive through September 24, 2003 Glenn L Andersson 25  1  9-24-03  3:38 pm Archive through September 27, 2003 Shannon Christopher 25  1  9-27-03  8:37 pm Archive through September 29, 2003 Monty 25  1  9-29-03  11:28 am Archive through October 01, 2003 Robert Clack 25  1  10-01-03  10:50 am Archive through October 03, 2003 Shannon Christopher 25  1  10-03-03  10:17 pm Archive through October 07, 2003 Glenn L Andersson 25  1  10-07-03  9:10 am Archive through October 09, 2003 Shannon Christopher 25  1  10-09-03  8:19 pm Archive through October 16, 2003 Alan Sharp 25  1  10-16-03  12:26 pm Archive through October 18, 2003 Glenn L Andersson 25  1  10-18-03  7:39 am Archive through October 20, 2003 Richard Brian Nunwee 25  1  10-20-03  4:53 pm Archive through October 23, 2003 Saddam 25  1  10-23-03  8:47 pm Archive through October 26, 2003 Shannon Christopher 25  1  10-26-03  8:05 pm Archive through November 05, 2003 Saddam 25  1  11-05-03  9:52 pm Archive through November 12, 2003 Alan Sharp 25  1  11-12-03  8:45 am Archive through November 28, 2003 Shannon Christopher 25  1  11-28-03  6:51 am Archive through December 08, 2003 Sarah Long 25  1  12-08-03  11:29 am Archive through December 12, 2003 Saddam 25  1  12-12-03  11:23 pm Archive through January 06, 2004 Sarah Long 25  1  1-06-04  6:13 am Archive through January 08, 2004 Dan Norder 25  1  1-08-04  7:10 am Archive through January 20, 2004 Martin Anderson 25  1  1-20-04  7:55 am Archive through January 25, 2004 Robert W. House 25  1  1-25-04  5:03 pm Archive through January 29, 2004 Monty 25  1  1-29-04  11:02 am Archive through February 12, 2004 Peter J. Tabord 25  1  2-12-04  10:11 am Archive through April 26, 2004 Paul Jackson 25  1  4-26-04  8:39 pm Archive through May 19, 2004 Sarah Long 25  1  5-19-04  6:49 am Archive through May 26, 2004 Paul Jackson 50  1  5-26-04  8:44 pm Archive through June 06, 2004 Frank van Oploo 50  1  6-06-04  2:35 pm   Closed: New threads not accepted on this page

Author Message   Richard Brian Nunweek Chief Inspector Username: Richardn Post Number: 893 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 4:12 pm:        Hi Frank. I should point out that i am not making reference to any suspect in particular, I am simply making basic observations on recorded evidence, whether circumstancial or not. I Believe the only time the real killer was seen was Bernier Street, ie, his behaviour pattern. see victim , attack victim,. of course it proberly was more complicated then that , more thought may have been preplanned, but my hunch is that on specific preplanned nights for murder, he simply walked the streets, visited pubs, until he found a suitable kill. Incidently there is no evidence to pinpoint Eddowes as a practising prostitute, according to all reports she was simply a middle aged woman, living by her wits with her man. She was killed because she ventured into the square, where the perpretrator who killed Stride happened to be. I Still maintain that an explanation for the recent bruise between thumb, and forefinger, has to be explained, it certainly has all the characteristics of grapping her hand in a rough manner, either pulling her along [ showing impatience] or attacking her from the south west corner of the square. Richard.   Dan Norder Detective Sergeant Username: Dannorder Post Number: 135 Registered: 4-2004 Posted on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 4:39 am:        Hi Richard, "Regarding Nichols, what evidence is there that the press mis-reported the statements from various witnesses at the scene?" This is kind of off topic for the thread, but the police records clearly show that they interviewed everyone who lived in the vicinity of the Nichols murder and that nobody heard anything. Further, the crime scene evidence indicates she was killed on the spot and was not running around bleeding. It's possible the press misreported the situation, and also plausible that the "witnesses" gave bad information. Police reports trump newspaper reports. "Incidently there is no evidence to pinpoint Eddowes as a practising prostitute, according to all reports she was simply a middle aged woman, living by her wits with her man." Also not really about Stride, but Eddowes was just a completely broke woman who left her common law husband to supposedly go ask a relative for money (although she didn't know where that relative lived) and somehow could afford to get extremely intoxicated so that she got locked up and then, when released, headed off toward a hot spot for prostitution and was reportedly seen acting in an intimate manner with a man other than her husband just minutes before the she was killed. While none of those facts count as proof that she was a prostitute, they do count as evidence, so your opinion that there is none is incorrect. Dan Norder, editor, Ripper Notes   Thomas C. Wescott Detective Sergeant Username: Tom_wescott Post Number: 125 Registered: 4-2003 Posted on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 11:44 pm:        Dan, Thank you for responding in part to Richard's post, as I did not know where to begin. Ha ha. As for Eddowes, I've often believed that her 'Bermondsey' story was simply for John Kelly's sake - to explain away the money she got for booze and lodgings which, as we can surmise, she got from prostitution. Now, getting back to Stride...what's the next topic of discussion? Yours truly, Tom Wescott   pf arm Unregistered guest Posted on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 5:32 am:        I believe (at the moment anyway) that the ripper accosted his victims as a client and they led him to him to the sites where they were murder. What bothers me with Stride is that i don't believe Dutfield Yard is a place where stride would go with clients. Presumably she was hanging around outside because it meant she could catch men coming out of the pub and the club. I can't see a potential client being willing to go somewhere where his mates still in the club have a resonable chance of bumping into them especially when there must have been other more suitable places nearby.   Cludgy Unregistered guest Posted on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 8:38 am:        Hi Frank, et al I have been busy these last two weeks and havn't been near a computer during this time so apoligies if this post is a little late. You are right. I am of the opinion that the attack as witnessed by Schwartz, was a spontaneous affair. The attacker was very aggresive and abusive from the outstart, he doesn't seem to have planned his actions in any way, he didn't seem to mind that anyone was watching him, and seems to have verbally abused Schwartz, as Glen said this doesn't seem to have the subtlety of a Ripper attack. JTR's method,in my mind, seems to employ guile and cunning, I don't think he would be the type to draw attention to himself. Also the 12:45 attack on Stride, is in my mind, too early on in the evening to have been a Ripper attack. Regarding whether Stride (after she left the Bricklayers Arms) recieved any payment for services rendered that night. I must say that I am of the opinion that she was soliciting that night, and as she had no way of spending the money, (between earning it and being murdered,) It therefore follows,in my opinion, that she was robbed that night. Regarding the refusal of a client (Brown's account) could it not be, that because of the Ripper scare, Stride was only providing her services to established clients? Remember she was kissing and hugging one man, could he have been one of Liz's "regulars"? She wasn't unattractive, she could have had regular clients. The man seen by Brown could have been a stranger to Liz, too much of a risk, hence she refused him, "Not tonight some other night". Regards Cludgy   Paul Jackson Inspector Username: Paulj Post Number: 258 Registered: 2-2004 Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 10:28 pm:        Hi Everyone, Cludgy...Let me just point out that the people seen by Brown werent necessarily Stride and...Joe blow. Brown wasnt absolutley sure that it was stride that he had seen when confronted with her body at the morgue. Mrs. Mortimer also reported seeing this same couple standing by the board school. She stated that the couple had been there for about half an hour. My point is that Brown is not that great of a witness because it was probably not Stride that he saw. Peace out. Paul   Thomas C. Wescott Detective Sergeant Username: Tom_wescott Post Number: 133 Registered: 4-2003 Posted on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 8:27 pm:        Paul, Mrs. Mortimer's evidence is far more suspect than James Brown's, and it's important to remember that she didn't see a lot of people we know to have been on the street between 12:30 and 1:00 that morning. She certainly wasn't there at 12:45 when Schwartz walked by, and James Brown was probably only off by a few minutes in his timing, which puts him seeing the couple at approximately 12:40a.m.. Mrs. Mortimer stated the couple was there for about a 20 minute period, stretching before and after the murder. Well, we know this not to have been the case from Diemschutz, who didn't see them at 1a.m., and we know from Schwartz they weren't there at 12:45a.m.. Obviously, if there was a young couple there, they saw nothing of significance, because no mention of them is made by police. As for James Brown, he appears to have been honest about what he did and didn't see, and didn't fabricate flowers for the sake of pleasing the police and 'fitting' his evidence with that of others. Therefore, when he says he 'almost certainly' saw Stride that night, I believe him, and hesitate in casting out his evidence. Did he see her with her killer? Probably not, but his evidence is important in that she (if it was her) was overheard refusing custom. I believe she did the same with the drunken man who approached her, and that is why he became violent. Yours truly, Tom Wescott   Cludgy Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 10:34 am:        I'll agree Paul that there is a possibility that the couple Brown saw, wern't Stride and an unknown man. The chances are that it was her though. Regards Cludgy.   George Hutchinson Chief Inspector Username: Philip Post Number: 685 Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 7:59 pm:        Can you believe a thread that was SO busy has had no postings for over a year???!!! I was on site today with Rob Clack and Christian Jaud and pointed my digital camera over fences and gates. It is impossible to see anything inside the school playground so you have to hold your arm out and shoot and hope for the best. Usually I wouldn't dream of doing this but the school is still on holiday so there was no risk of unpleasant accusations! According to Winston Ramsey, Liz's murder spot is the end of the flower bed coming into the playground. These aren't good, but the best you can get in the circumstances. PHILIP Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!   George Hutchinson Chief Inspector Username: Philip Post Number: 689 Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 9:08 pm:        Just to reiterate, folks. The first image is not the same bed as the second image. The site is on the extreme left of the first, and partially overlaying the bushy area on the right of the second. The entrance to Dutfields Yard was just to the right of the basketball hoop where the wall rises and the white paint ends. PHILIP Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!   Nicholas Smith Detective Sergeant Username: Diddles Post Number: 78 Registered: 6-2005 Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2005 - 9:18 am:        G'day Phil, not bad shots considering, but don't you think it might have been more prudent to wait for school to re-open and ask the Head if it's ok to take some photos? If so, let me know when you're going again and I'll come along with you. So far all I've got photos of are the school wall with arrows saying 'somewhere around here'. Jules   George Hutchinson Chief Inspector Username: Philip Post Number: 694 Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2005 - 9:54 am:        Hi Jules. Winston Ramsey implies in his book he had some difficultly in gaining permission to take images for it here. A much younger bloke with a digital camera wanting them for a website would probably have very little luck at all. For some reason, this school has immense security. Even the gates are completely covered up. You simply cannot see inside. The entrance to Dutfields Yard would have been where, on the outside, the level of the top of the wall changes and there is a white wooden sign attached to it. PHILIP Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!   Nicholas Smith Detective Sergeant Username: Diddles Post Number: 79 Registered: 6-2005 Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2005 - 11:01 am:        G'day Phil, Yeah, I've got a great photo of the sign and the surrounding brickwork. I didn't have time when I was over here last time to try and get into the place but now I'm here perm. I'll give them a call and see what can be done, although I'm sure others have tried. I know a teacher down the street who might be able to help. I'll go and see him tomorrow. Cheers Jules   Julie Detective Sergeant Username: Judyj Post Number: 117 Registered: 2-2005 Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2005 - 5:42 pm:        Phillip You are selling yourself short. These are really good pictures considering the circumstances. They are very clear as well. keep it up there bud. regards Julie