Post Number: 362
|Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 7:05 pm: ||
I thought I would like to contribute something positive to the threads concerning Annie.
Some books and web pages have said that Annie's grave no longer exists. Some have even said that a BUILDING now stands on top of it. One is partially wrong, the other is totally wrong.
Annie lies in a public grave. These graves cannot be exhumed or desecrated no matter how long they have been there. With public graves, the grave sites can have new burials placed upon them after 50 years. At Manor Park they usually wait 70 years. It is thought the burials which now stand there began around the 1950s.
One would think this would disinter other human remains, but this does not appear to be the case. The new burials are closer to the surface in my estimation (the current site is hugely uneven and sunken which may give credence to this). It is perfectly possible that there may not even be any remains surviving today (exhumations in Halifax, Nova Scotia for DNA testing of 3 anonymous victims of the Titanic a few years ago found that in 2 of the graves there was no longer any trace of a burial whatsoever).
Annie lies in the plot that is now at the closest point to the train line. The plot is behind a row of private graves, and covers a roughly equal area along Cornwell Crescent (THERE's an ironic name!) either side of and to the south of its junction with Wyman's Way.
There is nothing on the site to commemorate her - the only relic being the rather misguided framed item in the cemetery office which is spoken about in depth on the 'PICTURE AT MANOR PARK CEMETERY' thread.
The erroneous stories that the site had been built over are due to the sale of land at nearby Woodgrange Park Cemetery, where much of the land has indeed been built over. I suspect people have heard that story, learnt that Annie's grave has been BURIED over and assumed buildings have gone on top (I thought this myself once).
The current staff could not give me the EXACT location of Annie's grave, but they were happy to point me to the plot. In truth, it is an area of about 40 by 150 feet, so it is difficult to know where she might be today.
I have a 30-second mpeg video of the grave site showing what a crowded plot it is, and in such poor condition. Though I can't post it here, I am happy to e-mail it to anyone who contacts me. It is about 3.5MB and you will need a REAL MEDIA video player installed to be able to watch it.
In the meantime, I am posting here some pictures I took yesterday at the cemetery. The first one is the entrance from the Manor Park Station side.
Here are 4 shots of the burial plot. The first image is from the NW
From the SW :
From the NE :
and from the SE :
Finally, a shot of the main entrance. It is through these gates that Annie's hearse passed. The office containing the offending mortuary shot on display is to the right :
I hope all this has proved useful!
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
Jennifer D. Pegg
Post Number: 1942
|Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 4:47 am: ||
thanks for the info.
Christopher T George
Post Number: 1337
|Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 12:07 pm: ||
Thank you so much for posting these shots which is the first I have seen of Annie's place of rest. That is an amazing jumble of headstones. As you say "what a crowded plot it is, and in such poor condition." Kind of depressing.
Your mention of graves in Nova Scotia brings to mind something I have been involved in in my capacity of a War of 1812 historian. There is a question of investigating the remains of British General Robert Ross, shot here in Baltimore during the War of 1812, that lie in St. Paul's Cemetery, Halifax. However, even though Ross lies under a table-style tomb, the inscribed topstone was ajar for some time and I fear that due to the wet climate the result might be the same as for the Titanic victims that you mentioned, that his body might have seeped away in the meanwhile.
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Post Number: 11
|Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 4:45 pm: ||
Philip (GEO HUTCHINSON)
They are especially helpful for those of us who are not in Britain, even though it is impossible to pinpoint her location, we know she's there.
I would love to see the video you mentioned, I do have a real Media Player.
Post Number: 301
|Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 9:07 pm: ||
Thank you so much for showing us where Annie lays. I would love to see the video that you speak of!
Send it to me!
"When a man grows tired of London, he grows tired of life" (or summat like that)
|Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 1:59 am: ||
Good Job Philip! Living in the States and Deciding on which Ripper burial sites to visit when we come to Great Britain again is tough. Now I have your wonderful visual references. Thanks again. Theron Helton
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