| Author |
Message |
    
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 584
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 7:39 pm: | 
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News has just arrived that the information that London is hosting the 2012 Olympics has just reached the rings of Saturn.
This has been a double-edged sword for me. Not only does sport bore me beyond measure (sorry, Monty!) but it makes me worry about the preservation of those few parts of the Ripper's London that still remain.
I am sure much of it is Urban Myth, but I have already heard mention of some Eurostar tunnel coming up in the middle of Brick Lane, and of the possible demolition of the wholesale warehouses along the Miller's Court side of Dorset Street.
I know the majority of the Olympic Village is due to be in Stratford, a good few miles away, but has anyone seen detailed plans?
In short, are all the locations safe?
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Glenn G. Lauritz Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 3679
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 8:35 pm: |
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Hi Hutch,
As a soon-to-be resident in England, I would like to know more about those plans in detail too. My thoughts are the same as yours.
I posted the following message on Pub Talk (on the Sport for Monty thread), but this is obviously a better place for it:
-----------------------------------------------
Congrats to the Londoners for getting the Olympics in 2012!
However, although
Although I see the great investments that may be a result of this decision -- like finally installing LIFTS in the subway (for those who are disabled, and people like me, who are terribly afraid of heights and can't cope with the long and steep escalators) and a lot of new jobs -- I am also worried to a large degree.
Those who thinks getting the Olympics purely is a positive thing, are so naive that they should be whipped in public on Trafalgar Square.
Sure, a lot of new investments in infrastructure and alot of new jobs early in the process, but the bill that comes later -- when all the costs will be paid -- is not something to just brush off.
All the cities that has had the Olympics during the last 20 years have ended up with billions in losses. In the beginning it might be a good thing because of new jobs, improvements of subways, roads and buses, but the costs of millions of pounds show up later and that has to be paid by the tax payers and by cuttings in the national funds. Just look at cities like Atlanta and Athens (among several others) that has ended up with a very expensive bill in the end.
Besides, what really scares me, is that the authoritites now will proclaim that they finally will 'take care of' the shameful East End area.
Considering the low appreciation of the Ripper legacy by Londoners in general, the risk is now very impending that they will totally demolish everything that is left of the old East End and the places connected with the Ripper, so that it will look good and 'modern' for the international tourists. And naturally they also would see this as a great opportunity to get rid of the 'annoying' guiding tours through East End.
Considering the billions invested in road projects, rebuilding and demolishing of historical areas in for example Athens and Peking, that scares me on London's behalf.
It would be a disgrace for London to lose this part of the historical heritage.
All the best
G. Andersson, author/crime historian
Sweden
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
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Ken Proctor
Detective Sergeant
Username: Gizmo
Post Number: 89
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 9:20 pm: |
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Glen, I hope you are dead wrong on this one. I see that Olympic Park and a lot of venues are to located in the East End. If i am reading the map correctly these sites are east of the whitechapel/spitalfields areas. I am aware of a somewhat intolerance by a minority of whitechapel residents to the J.T.R. tours but i cant agree with your general premise that Londoners have a low appreciation for the Ripper legacy. If a tourist agency had figures that put a pound value on the yearly tourist expenditures assosciated with The Ripper, i think maybe it would be a significant slice of the tourism pie. Why, hell, I have visited "The Ten Bells" and all the sites, graves in all, three times in the past year. Yes, it would be a damn shame if we were to lose a lot more of this rich history of J.T.R. but I am optimistic that the authorities will take in the cultural, historical and revenue values of the "legacy". Heres Hoping.   "Gizmo"
"Hey Rookie----You were good" (Field Of Dreams)
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Glenn G. Lauritz Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 3682
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 9:39 pm: |
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Ken,
Actually, I see very little interest concerning the Ripper and Victorian legacy from the local authorities in London. My impression is that this is an element in London history one really wants to hide and forget and not cherish. I even get the impression that they are ashamed of it.
Just look at what happened to the Clerkenwell prison. No interest from the local authorities at all.
As for the tour guides, as far as I know, some of them appear to be independent and self-sufficient, and thus not all of them connected to an agency. I doubt that London as such gains any incomes from those activities, if we're talking about money.
I see very little signs of that London as a city see any particular value or benefit from preserving East End, considering the bad shape it is in, a lot of houses with boarded windows and shabby entrances; some even look like they are falling apart at any minute (not every street looks like Artillery passage...).
I wish I could share your optimism, Ken, but I have a very bad feeling about this.
And especially since I myself have been involved with fighting against politicians for several years in different areas on matters exactly like these. To this date I have NEVER come across any politican or representatives from authorities that 'takes in cultural, historical and revenue values' in this context. That'll be the day.
And especially not when it comes to show off one of the most important capitals of the world, and want to make it look it's best in front of the TV cameras.
The first thing that gets demolished when a large event like the Olympics is taking place, are the poor and shabby areas, regardless of which historical legacy they represent.
I do hope you're right, Ken, but as I said... I have a very bad feeling about this.
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on July 06, 2005)
G. Andersson, author/crime historian
Sweden
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
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Ken Proctor
Detective Sergeant
Username: Gizmo
Post Number: 90
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 9:57 pm: |
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Glen. yes, i guess its just me chasing windmills again. Why dont they relocate Spitalfields/Whitechapel to Scotland then all the sites would be taken over by The National Trust of Scotland. They do a bang-on job up there. Oh if only William Wallace had not turned around and instead marched those last 18 miles into London, then, all those sites would would have brass plaques and Tennents Lager would be on tap at the "Ten Bells" "CHEERS" GIZMO
"Hey Rookie----You were good" (Field Of Dreams)
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Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 895
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 11:30 pm: |
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The sites are all but gone by now anyway. But I don't think the Whitechapel/Spitalfields area has much to fear. It would hardly be politically correct to displace so many Middle Eastern immigrants.
I was thinking that maybe now after 70 years they finally have a suitable use for Crystal Palace! 
Seriously, contratulations! You should be happy to be hosting the world's biggest international party.
Andy S.
(Message edited by aspallek on July 06, 2005) |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2646
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 4:27 am: |
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Don't worry, it will never all get built anyway!
Jenni
"By the power of Greyskull - I have the power!"
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4645
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 4:33 am: |
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With all those athletes coming over, there are going to be even more drugs in London than there are now.
Robert |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2744
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 4:42 am: |
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Hi all,
Well of course it's great we've got 2012,but I too was a tad worried re what remains of the 'sites'.Whats the latest on the Dorset St/Whites Row 'redevelopment' incidently?
As I see it,the mega stadium and 'village' is to be built in the Stratford area,but most of the other 'events' are being peppered all over the British Isles..sailing in Weymouth for example!!!....God hope they're not expecting the athletes to travel by train!!!!!
Oh well we'll see..long time yet,mind you as Jenni said they'll probably need it.....mind you if the Greeks can pull it off........there's hope!
Suzi |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4647
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 5:01 am: |
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Any chance of staging the javelin-throwing inside the House Of Commons?
Robert |
Glenn G. Lauritz Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 3686
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 5:25 am: |
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Andy,
I seriously disagree with you that the sites are gone to such an extent. They are changed, yes, but the streets are still there and some occasional houses.
Now, if you totally remodel the streets and the whole area, destroying a lot of adjacent streets and blocks (making all the sites look like the car park on former Dorset Street), then the possibility of doing the tour walks would finally be lost.
It's true it's a bit politically incorrect to toss away the immigrants, but that didn't really concern the other cities.
Suzi,
"mind you if the Greeks can pull it off........there's hope!"
Yes, but in Athens they destroyed and remodeled a lot of valuable archeological sites, so although the result really looked good in Athens in the end, I certainly hope the British government is not as ruthless, because then we're in trouble.
I may be over-reacting and I really hope so. It's just that my experiences on these matters are not pleasant. I know how politicians thinks in situations like these, and historical areas usually gets very low priority compared to the ideas of totally rebuild with new modern and impressing stuff. Large international events like these usually makes the local politicians totally loose their heads and all common sense.
And since the government in London seems very little concerned with the historical legacy in East End and only sees social problems, I believe they might take the opportunity to get rid of it.
I actually over-heard Tony Blair saying on TV that they now would 'finally deal with the unattractive Eastern areas of the city.' One can of course discuss what that statement really means, but I think it should be taken seriously.
But of course I on the other hand think it's fun for London that they got the Olympics. Hopefully that will lead to positive things as well, and I do believe that London were one of those that deserved it the most, alongside Paris.
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on July 07, 2005)
G. Andersson, author/crime historian
Sweden
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
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Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 1926
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 5:57 am: |
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I'm practising for the over fifties' egg-and-spoon race as we speak!
Terrible news of explosions in the City this morning - three buses blasted, the whole tube network is closed, unknown numbers of casualties. Aldgate tube station affected, Kings Cross area cleared...
News coming in all the time.
Take care all.
Love,
Caz
X |
Glenn G. Lauritz Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 3688
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 6:44 am: |
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Terrible, Caz.
I just saw it on the news. What a disaster.There are updates here about it on the telly every half hour.
Apparently supposed terrorist attacks aimed at the G8 meeting in Scotland.
Absolutely horrendous.
My condolences to London and its people for this.
All the best
(Message edited by glenna on July 07, 2005)
G. Andersson, author/crime historian
Sweden
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
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Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 1928
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 9:02 am: |
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Hi Glenn,
East Croydon has been affected too, but there are no details yet. As I came into town, the centre was closed off by police and my daughter was told that a bomb had gone off. I hope it was only a scare.
Love,
Caz
X |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2162
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 9:22 am: |
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Thanks Glenn,
It is awful here at the moment especially because of those who have been killed or injured .
On the subject of the thread I agree with Glenn here completely.
I do not think that the government will be bothered about disrupting the lives of those in the poorer parts of the East End.It worries me how blase they have become about knocking out of the way anything that they want to do their way.
There are lots of parts of Whitechapel that are
Victorian andslightly derelict that seem to me to be vulnerable to the bullies in Whitehall.
So I too have mixed feelings about the 2012 Games to be held here.
Natalie |
Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 1929
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 9:32 am: |
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Apparently, some suspect packages have been found in Croydon town centre, so my daughter's school are sending everyone home to be on the safe side.
Love,
Caz
X |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2163
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 9:57 am: |
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Hope everything is Ok Caz.
Nats |
Maria Giordano
Inspector
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 437
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 10:21 am: |
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I'm horrified at the bombings and hope all of you who live in the area will check in and let us know that you're OK.
Thank god New York didn't get the Olympics!I just saw that as a terribly expensive mess from beginning to end. Dodged a bullet there.
Mags
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Glenn G. Lauritz Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 3689
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 10:30 am: |
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Hi Caz,
Where exactly is East Croydon, by the way?
One would imagine that terrorists would focus mostly on the city centre (as they have done) in order to create as much fear and chaos as possible.
Hope everything turns out OK there, Caz.
Natalie and Mags,
Indeed. I agree with you both.
But let's hope we're wrong...
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on July 07, 2005)
G. Andersson, writer/crime historian
Sweden
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2745
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 1:15 pm: |
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Caz
What a terrible day!!! Hope all's right with you God keep in touch
Suzi x |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2746
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 1:28 pm: |
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Maria
Its a very very stressful day here the mobile phone system went down or was put down by the powers that be cos of the emergency and the death toll is 37 as I type......... Thanks for your good wishes
Suzi x |
Sandy
Sergeant
Username: Sandy
Post Number: 29
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 3:26 pm: |
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I want to say that my prayers are with all you Londoners. I heard about the bombings on the radio about an hour ago and I got that familiar pang in my gut that I first felt when the news came in on 9/11. I am so sorry this is happening, and I hope all is well with everyone.
Sandy |
Poorhoney
Sergeant
Username: Poorhoney
Post Number: 29
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 5:15 pm: |
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My thoughts and prayers are with all who were in any way touched by today's events and with all of London.
-Honey
Punxsutawney Phil is a groundhog!
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George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 585
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 5:20 pm: |
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It's been a bit of a weird day. The thing that has hit me hardest is that where one bomb went off, at Aldgate, is exactly where I had been 13 hours before. All the footage of the street blocked off and full of police cars, ambulances and fire engines is the exact spot I had been standing on with 30 tourists telling them about Jack The Ripper (site of 29 Aldgate High Street).
We knew it was coming, but we were expecting a plane into The Houses Of Parliament or Canary Wharf. Consequently, I feel we got away quite easily in the circumstances.
Hopefully we will get back to normal soon. I was watching TV this morning when the news broke. I don't know what they are telling you in the US, but all tube and bus services have stopped in London. Buses had a few running this evening, and some mainline train stations are open again. Many workers had to walk for miles and hours through London this evening. We currently have over 200 casualties, 38 fatalities and 4 bombs. When you compare that to 9/11, we have been lucky (whatever that might mean).
The Sir John Cass Foundation School was on the news, which is - of course - next to Ripper's Corner.
It seems a bit chilling now the innocence in which I started this thread last night.
Andy - I understand what you are saying about the sites having gone, but I also concur with Glenn. The MURDER sites have gone, but a fair deal of JTR's London still stands. To think it was almost 120 years ago in a very busy part of London, I think a good amount remains.
From what I gather, the actual Olympics won't affect our area, but by implication the presence of them may precipotate the further demolition of some of the buildings. It is a worry.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4651
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 5:25 pm: |
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Good to hear you're OK anyway, Philip.
Robert |
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 896
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 5:44 pm: |
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To quote a wartime sentiment:
"London can take it!"
Keep a stiff upper lip and don't be swayed by the thugs. We in America stand with you.
With sympathy and solidarity,
Andy S. |
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 676
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 7:05 pm: |
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I know Britain will stand tall in the saddle. I just hope they don't waste any time after they capture these greaseballs and send them off to an internment camp. Just shoot them.
38 sets of parents lost their kids to Stone Age ideology today.
Please don't send them to Guantanamo Bay where their "rights" will be fussed over..
Just shoot 'em.
HowBrown
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Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2168
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 08, 2005 - 4:12 am: |
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Hi Philip,
Its good to know you are OK .Scary though to think you were there only hours before!
I agree with you in all you say here except for"I feel we got away quite easily in the circumstances".
Well defenceless people were targeted Philip
on their way to work.Seven hundred were injured ,thirty seven died and there were lots of limb amputations,burns,broken legs, suffocation from smoke that have to be treated-its not all over yet.
Also certainly Government buildings are now very well "defended" .Its unlikely they will be targeted given the ban on air space over them etc.A ring of thick concrete surrounds the Houses of Parliament for example.This just goes to show how despicable ,heartless and ruthless these people are.
Take Care,
Natalie |
Glenn G. Lauritz Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 3691
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 08, 2005 - 5:24 am: |
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Hi Natalie,
I think Hutch meant that in comparison to 9/11 in New York, London got away more easily, even though of course people were tragically killed and injured.
Mind you, the tube network in London is the bloodline of the city and is transporting millions of people. Some of the lines -- like the Jubilee -- are lying very deep in the underground and there are many levels up to the surface.
It really could have ended in a total disaster that exceeds our wildest imaginations. Instead of 38 dead, there could have been thousands!
Even though what happened was a tragic occurence and a chaotic situation in itself (and not to diminish it in any way), London was still lucky in a way, because the tube system is very vulnerable and it all could have ended in thousands of casualties.
I think that is the perspective Hutch used.
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on July 08, 2005)
G. Andersson, writer/crime historian
Sweden
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
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Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 1932
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 08, 2005 - 5:48 am: |
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Hi Glenn,
East Croydon Station is only about 15 minutes from London Bridge by train, and is on the main London/Gatwick/Brighton line.
The station was closed for a time as was the town centre, and my daughter said it was very eerie, as all she and her schoolmates could hear were sirens as the emergency services went into action. Some of the younger girls were crying, and the father of one of her best friends was at Liverpool St ten minutes before the blast. They were all sent home as a precaution.
I was in London the night before, close to where they are still looking for missing people, as was one of my Croydon workmates, and it's quite horrible to think what was going on in the minds of the fanatics at that time, as they were plotting to destroy the lives of total strangers who would be there, in the wrong place, in just a few hours.
I'm off to the English seaside next week with my bucket and spade, but I will be thinking of those who worked in London, for London, and died there.
Have a safe weekend all, and I'll see you soon.
Love,
Caz
XXX
(Message edited by caz on July 08, 2005) |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2169
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 08, 2005 - 6:02 am: |
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Caz,
Glad your daughter was OK and that you are getting over the shock-which affected us all here.
My son-in-law felt a bit unwell yesterday so was about 20 mins later than usual.He takes the Piccadilly line to Kings Cross and would normally have arrived there at the time of the disaster.
Terrible to think of.Poor souls who were on that tube.
Glenn,I see your point.Many more died in New York
and indeed in Madrid its true but all were ghastly
events.
Thanks for your concern over yesterday,
Natalie |
Dani
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, July 08, 2005 - 6:18 am: |
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Hi all.
I had read through this message board since few years ago, but this is my first post (my lack of good English...).
My condolence and support for the Londoners in these dark hours. Here in Madrid we know well how do you feel today.
Best wishes.
Dani.
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Dani
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, July 08, 2005 - 6:18 am: |
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Hi all.
I had read through this message board since few years ago, but this is my first post (my lack of good English...).
My condolence and support for the Londoners in these dark hours. Here in Madrid we know well how do you feel today.
Best wishes.
Dani.
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Brenda
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 2:36 pm: |
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My thoughts are with you guys there in London. I certainly hope all of the Casebook folks are okay. |
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 589
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 08, 2005 - 5:27 pm: |
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Thanks all of you for your concerns.
Nats - Glenn is right; that is exactly what I meant. ANY death would not have been 'getting off lightly' but when you think we had 4 bombs in rush hour the death toll is surprisingly low. Think of the many thousands who died in the US.
I hope I speak for all of us in the UK when I say we are really touched by the international sentiment you are all showing. It's bad, but it's not as bad as it could be. London is mostly today back to normal with the occasional evacuation as a precaution and some tube lines closed.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4656
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 08, 2005 - 6:43 pm: |
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Thanks for your kind wishes folks.
Robert |
awood
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, July 08, 2005 - 8:15 pm: |
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Hi all
The attacks on Thursday were merely a statement of intent. As someone who uses the tube all day, every day, I know it could have been so much worse, not just for me personally.
Callous as it sounds, life goes on and we will carry on with our lives - much the same as our friends from the US, who came to the Bournemouth Conference weeks after 9/11.
We Londoners will continue as normal, and we look forward to greeting our friends from around the world at the Brighton Conference.
Adam
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Nicholas Smith
Sergeant
Username: Diddles
Post Number: 29
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 8:04 pm: |
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G'day everyone,
Unfortunately us folk up here in the Midlands have also been affected by the bombings in London. We've had idiots making crank calls to the police and boxes left in pubs and bags left in banks. It's just plain bloody stupid.
Anyway, back to the original thread, There's bugger all left of the original 'Ripper' sites. It's my belief that the shop owners of Whitechapel got sick and tired of hoards of people turning up on their doorstep to take photos of the murder scenes while they're trying to run a business.
No offence to the people who organise the 'Ripper' walks/tours, but in another 5yrs you won't see a sceric of what was once 'Jacks' territory. Having said that I do believe Mitre Square will survive - RIP Catherine.
Take care everyone and don't forget to hug the ones you love.
Jules |
any1rem
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 9:49 pm: |
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just to reasure one and all my uncle who lives in london and is a big jtr follower told me today that most of the olympic sites are to the east of many jtr sites and 99percent certain that none of the sites that remains will be affected by the olympics he has studied and seen the actual plans for the olympics and reasures me that all jtr followers will have a good few years before any of the sites will be affected |
