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Timothy Marsh
Police Constable
Username: Erised
Post Number: 1
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 01, 2005 - 2:24 pm: | 
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While I perhaps do not know as much as many of the other distinguished and well read ripperologists using this site, there is one aspect of Mary Kelly's mutilations that has always troubled me as to why it has not received more attention.
If my facts are correct despite extensive mutilation of the face, the eyes were left completely intact. In addition to this there was evidence that the head may have been propped up at some point as parts of her anatomy were found under her head. Was it one of her breasts?
My point being has anyone given any thought that it may have been psycholigically imporant to Jack for him to create the illusion that Mary Kelly was witnessing her own mutilation.
While admittedly this is the only ripper murder where this detail was apparent the rushed nature of the other victims may have prohibitted the creation of this illusion.
This I think would be indicative of the murder being revenge or some form of retribution. Not necessarily against Mary Kelly specifically of course, but perhaps against women generally or the 'unfortunate' class of that time.
It does make me wonder whether any insight could be provided as to Jack's psychology if this were the case.
I'd be interested in hearing other peoples views. |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2136
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 01, 2005 - 4:30 pm: |
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Hi Timothy,
The problem with these murders that have been attributed to Jack the Ripper noone knows.
I think the message may have had something to do with a prurient attitude to prostitutes and their trade and a "wages of sin"type of thing.
Others have seen much more active engagement with the viewer-messages to do with tailors markings etc.
But noone is absolutely sure about any of these theories.
If the ripper was completely insane I doubt we shall ever know why he did what he did.
If he was a sexual serial killer, as many on these boards think, then we may eventually learn about his motivation.
If he was a psychopath we may learn what he was saying.
As regards your theory I think it may fit if he was having a psychotic episode at the time he was killing and this was being seen as some kind of way out,off the wall "punishment".
Anyway,welcome to the boards!
Natalie
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Dan Norder
Chief Inspector
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 755
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 01, 2005 - 6:52 pm: |
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Hi Timothy,
Yeah, I think her head was probably propped up for a specific reason. It's conceivable the parts found underneath (one breast, the uterus and kidneys... interesting how the last two are the ones taken in previous killings) could have been there accidentally, if they were the first things taken out and then the body was moved afterwards and just happened to be that way, but that is a little difficult to believe.
If you look at the placement of the head it is tilted toward the table. So she could indeed be posed to look at the parts placed there. If that's the case it looks to me like her eyes would be aimed at the flaps of flesh from her thighs with her groin and lower stomach area in the middle (a.k.a "not a pillow!").
Some people look at the murders and see posing in most of them. I think the jury is still out on that, but there are good arguments in favor of it.
As far as not damaging the eyes goes, I'm not entirely sure they are "completely intact" -- in one of my computer enhanced images I think I see a cut across an eyeball. Of course it's kind of difficult to tell what's really there and what is filling in the details to be what we think they are instead of what they are. I note that other people see the eyes in completely different places, so we're not even sure where they are.
We do have indications thought that they were at least largely intact. This, by the way, seems to me to go against the idea that the Ripper knew the victim personally... Facial mutilations tend to point toward someone trying to hide the identity of someone they know, which due to the location wasn't a concern in this case, and those killers who know the victims and do something special to the face for psychological reasons often specifically target the eyes by blindfolding them, ripping them out, or what have you so the eyes don't continuously look at them. In this case the eyebrows were sliced in such a way as to accidentally or intentionally exaggerate the wide eyed look (the "look of terror" Walter Dew reports). I don't think we can place too much significance into the fact that a killer who mutilates lots of parts of a body ends up also mutilating the face and try to read that as an isolated clue. In this case everything female (except, perhaps notably, the hair) was attacked (which also happens to be the largest section of body mass and a natural target for mutilation anyway) and the insides torn out.
But, yeah, the placement of the flesh on the table strikes me as a major bit of posing... her legs bits are straddling the table (almost like she is purposefully exposing herself to everyone who would come in), and they are propped up almost too neatly in my mind to be accidentally in that position. The pose of the head could be looking at that, or maybe intended to look at people as they come in.
Dan Norder, Editor
Ripper Notes: The International Journal for Ripper Studies
 Profile  Email  Dissertations  Website
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Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 885
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 02, 2005 - 1:02 pm: |
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As for posing, I have noticed that at least three victims were found with one arm across the chest area. This is plainly visible in the photograph of Mary Kelly (left arm). Ann Chapman was also found with her left arm on her chest (the post-mortem report says it was "placed" there). Elizabeth's Stride's right arm was found on her chest area. Catharine Eddowes arms were both found by her sides, palms up. I cannot find a description of the position of Polly Nicholls' arms.
Andy S. |
Timothy Marsh
Police Constable
Username: Erised
Post Number: 2
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 04, 2005 - 7:36 am: |
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Many thanks to all for the welcome and posting their views on this subject.
Tim |
Steve Murray
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2005 - 9:40 am: |
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The MKJ murder strikes me as a very personal punishment type killing and to my mind a one-off. If indeed she was pretty as has been well documented the mutilations would not have satisfied the killer, her pretty face had to go along with her heart, For my money the killer knew her well and needed to make sure nobody else had the pleasure of her company or looks ever again.
The Killing of prostitutes has been going on since the dawn of time but this one is way out on its own even in comparison to Chapman and Eddowes. The MJK murder has hate,revenge, jealousy,rage,spite and humiliation. No matter how little time the Killer of Liz Stride had it would have taken less than 10 seconds to slash her face to bits.
Who knows Tim, you may have a point,  so many people over the years have over complicated the main issues by reading things into each event. So many diferent sightings and descriptions lead me to belive that at least two of the accepted JtR victims where murdered by ex lovers/boyfriends. Stride probably, simply had her throat cut because she would not turn a trick for her (pimp, Kidney)that night and had left him, so no love lost there. However MJK had someone who did everything he could to keep her off the streets, even possibly loosing a good job on account of him steeling to help keep MJK in the kind of luxury(I use this turm loosly)she had come to enjoy at his expense. I am also new to the message board and apreciate the point you have made!However it seems to me that for over 100 years the idea of a serial killer just won't die, up untill the begining of this year i felt the same but maybe that is why no single suspect has really fitted the bill. ITS TIME TO WIDEN THE NET
REGARDS
STEVE. |
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