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Chris Taylor
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 7:39 pm: | 
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Ive been reading the boards for the last two days, ive been intrested in the ripper story since i was about 15 years old, im 22 now, just a little backgroud information there.
what ive concluded is that no one can agree on anything, so im hoping somone can maybe clear this up for me.
How did the police know the so called ripper victims were all killed by the same man, maybe it was just a diffrent murderer each time, not realted in one way or another and some psycho decided to send the ripper letters, is there any real evidence to connect all the murders together, i mean why would he suddenly stop because no matter what anyone says if it was barnett even after killing kelly i think madness would have taken over and there is no way he could have continued a normal life, but if it was diffrent men killing these woman for whatever reason, then i could belive barnett killed kelly then continued as normal, because the so called jack the ripper would have been to blame
if theres any real evidence to connect then please state so
thanks
Taylor |
Adam Went
Detective Sergeant
Username: Adamw
Post Number: 143
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 6:01 pm: |
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Hi Chris,
Well actually, there has always been some controversy over whether Mary Kelly and especially Elizabeth Stride were Ripper victims. I personally believe both of them were, but nobody really knows for sure.
The murders of Jack the Ripper were, for their day, quite unique. There was no other series of murders before Jack that were so brutal as his was.
The victims were usually killed in quite a similar way. Strangled, layed down on the ground, their throats cut, usually very deeply, and then their abdomens ripped open, with their skirts left up. In the case of Eddowes and Kelly, their faces were also mutilated. All were found in a fairly concealed area, and always next to a wall, fence or gate.
So you see, the murders were quite distinct. Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes are generally believed all round to be Ripper victims, and Kelly a reasonable amount too. It's only Liz Stride who is frequently discounted from the "canonical five", basically because her abdomen wasn't mutilated, and the cut to her throat was not as severe as the others. In my opinion, this is simply because she resisted, and the attacker was interrupted. But the debate goes on.
Doctor's autopsy reports of the time also indicate that the killer was one and the same man.
Hope I've answered your questions well enough.
Regards,
Adam.
The Wenty-icator!
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Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 721
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 12:50 pm: |
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Chris,
It is not known for sure that all the murders were committed by the same hand. We have to trust the local police to a large extent. They were more familiar with the circumstances than we are today. While serial murders were rare in those days, serial crimes were not. The police were experienced in connecting a series of crimes to one perpetrator. The fact is the police were convinced that the majority of these murders were by the same hand. There was another series of murders also taking place in London at about this time, sometimes referred to as the Torso murders. The police were equally convinced these were by a different hand. While we don't accept their conclusions blindly, we must give them credit for their detective work.
It is not quite true that the Whitechapel murders were unprecedented in their brutality. Consider the Austin, Texas axe murders of 1885, for example.
Andy S. |
Adam Went
Inspector
Username: Adamw
Post Number: 151
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 3:10 am: |
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Hi Andrew,
"It is not quite true that the Whitechapel murders were unprecedented in their brutality. Consider the Austin, Texas axe murders of 1885, for example."
True Andrew, I completely forgot about those.
Still, that was in the USA. For England atleast, these murders were different to anything else experienced there before. And Jack the Ripper was also unique for his day in several other ways, not just the brutality of his attacks. That is part of the reason why he is so infamous as he is. Personally, I don't believe he would have been so well known as he is, if he had been around and attacking 70 or 80 years later. Just my opinion.
Regards,
Adam.
"Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once."
- Vicki Michelle,"Allo' Allo'"
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2880
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 3:42 am: |
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Hi Adam,
"For England atleast, these murders were different to anything else experienced there before. And Jack the Ripper was also unique for his day in several other ways, not just the brutality of his attacks. That is part of the reason why he is so infamous as he is."
No, that is completely incorrect, I am afraid. Haven't you seen the thread related to all those other gruesome murders involving mutilations in England prior to the Ripper?
True, from public opinion and the sensation the murders stirred up, it is evident that people at the time regarded them as something out of the ordinary, but we must remember that it was the tabloid papers (who long before the police speculated that the earliest murders might be connected) that helped to create the sensational elements and the panic. Those papers did't exist some years earlier.
The new thing about they Ripper murders was that they were serial killings (at least most of them were considered so), but as far as their gruesome character is concerned, they were not unique at the time and they are certainly not seen from our time perspective.
It was the tabloid press (which saw the light at exactly the same time as the so called Ripper murders started) that were responsible for the famous-making of the killings and if they never had jumped at the chance of covering them in their more or less illustrious and elaborate manner (sucking out every possible story), the murders would not have been as famous as they are today. This also influenced upon the actions of the police, since the pressure on them increased because of the tabloid press and the popular opinion.
Another reason for them being so well known is the whole Victorian context and the fact that the killer was identified, a typical "whodunnit".
But hardly their brutality or violent character as such.
All the best
G. Andersson, author
Sweden
(Message edited by Glenna on January 18, 2005)
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
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Adam Went
Inspector
Username: Adamw
Post Number: 154
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 4:22 am: |
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Hi Glenn,
"No, that is completely incorrect, I am afraid."
Well, you think that everything I think is completely incorrect, so that comes as no surprise. Doesn't mean the feeling isn't mutual though....
"Haven't you seen the thread related to all those other gruesome murders involving mutilations in England prior to the Ripper?"
No, I don't think I have.
"we must remember that it was the tabloid papers (who long before the police speculated that the earliest murders might be connected) that helped to create the sensational elements and the panic. Those papers did't exist some years earlier."
Some of those papers had existed for years, though. Decades. Certainly, the papers are responsible for heightening the frenzy throughout the murders even more, but even without them, there was still a huge amount of concern among people. It didn't require some sensational newspaper report to come out for people to start being concerned about what was happening.
"It was the tabloid press (which saw the light at exactly the same time as the so called Ripper murders started) that were responsible for the famous-making of the killings and if they never had jumped at the chance of covering them in their more or less illustrious and elaborate manner (sucking out every possible story), the murders would not have been as famous as they are today. This also influenced upon the actions of the police, since the pressure on them increased because of the tabloid press and the popular opinion."
Well, of course. I don't and never did deny that. The papers get good stories, they sell lots of copies, and make money. But everyone knows now, and have done for decades, that the newspapers can't be trusted as a reliable source of information. Originally the papers may have given rise to more fright, but the study of the Ripper has largely branched out from just worrying about press reports now. They are little more than an interesting read. I have seen many of these newspaper reports only in very recent times, and I can tell you that it didn't take a headline story to expound some great tale. It can only take an article the size of "if you blink, you'll miss it" to create some great myth.
"Another reason for them being so well known is the whole Victorian context and the fact that the killer was identified, a typical "whodunnit".
But hardly their brutality or violent character as such."
The Ripper murders aren't "Ripper" without the violent character of the killings. And whether the Ripper was the first such case or not, his has certainly been the most enduring case. Furthermore, in an East End full of violence and over-population, it was no uncommon thing for a murder to occur. Jack the Ripper was also unique in that he was able to grasp public attention for such a long time.
So no, whilst they did play a large part, I do not believe the newspapers are really that responsible for the Ripper being what he was, and is. They only contributed.
Regards,
Adam.
"Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once."
- Kirsten Cooke,"Allo' Allo'"
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2882
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 5:04 am: |
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Hi Adam,
"No, I don't think I have."
General Discussion >> The Whitechapel Road Mystery and Murder
../4920/14661.html"#C6C6B5"> |
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 727
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 10:26 am: |
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Boys, boys, boys...
The main point is that even if the police were relatively inexperienced with serial murders, they were not unfamiliar serial crimes. We must presume their detective work was more adequate than ours could possibly be 100+ years on in determining that at least most of these murders were committed by the same hand. They seemed quite confident in attributing these murders to the same hand and the Torso murders to a different hand. It would take compelling evidence on our part to overturn this opinion.
Andy S. |
Adam Went
Inspector
Username: Adamw
Post Number: 156
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 5:09 am: |
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Hi all,
Glenn, you wrote:
"General Discussion >> The Whitechapel Road Mystery and Murder
../4920/14661.html"#C6C6B5"> |
pat
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 1:00 pm: |
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Adam I wonder how all this media attention affected Jack himself? A lot of people with new found fame have difficuties. His fame depended on the newspapers. I wonder if it worsened his condition? just a thought Pat |
Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1101
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 8:46 am: |
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Pat:
Not answering for Adam, but in reality, we don't know if The Ripper could read in English.
However, we can be sure he was aware of the "man in the streets'" comments and probably exaggerated commentaries at that,which would have been titillating to him. |
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