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Olivier P.M.G. Donni
Sergeant
Username: Olivier
Post Number: 26
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 9:00 pm: | 
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By the way, do we know for sure that Hutchinson is not a Jew? The name does not sound Jewish but, once, I have found a person named "Hutchinson" (living in London - I think) who was Jewish.
Olivier |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2723
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 9:12 pm: |
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Hi Olivier,
I am not sure I know what you're getting at, though.
Do you mean that Schwartz was the only one who saw who the police believed was Jack the Ripper?
What about Lawende and Levy? Or Elisabeth Long?
I personally believe that the only one we might be sure of that saw Jack the Ripper was Elisabeth Long, but unfortunately she only saw him from behind and didn't see his face.
She is not relevant here anyway, since she was a woman and not Jewish, but nevertheless...
That leaves Lawende and Levy (who quite possibly saw Eddowes' murderer) and Schwartz. All three were Jewish. Among those three I'd say Schwartz got the best view of the killer, although he was a scared witness.
As I said, Lawende said that he "possibly couldn't identify the man if he saw him again" (although he gave a rather thorough description of his clothing) and Levy didn't (according to himself) pay that much attention.
So that leaves Schwartz -- which is credible, since the police had a strong belief in him as a witness, AND that they throughout the investigation considered Stride as a Ripper victim. -- which in itself makes things problematic. Because as you say, Mr Broad Shoulders didn't have to be Jack the Ripper, and I believe he wasn't. So if that was the case, then the whole identification was worthless.
It might be that I misunderstand you, forgive me if that is the case, but I can't really come to another conclusion.
It is your statement "In fact, he [Schwartz] is the only one who saw the killer" that puzzles me, because I certainly don't think he was the only one who got a good enough look at a Ripper suspect.
All the best
G, Sweden
(Message edited by Glenna on January 06, 2005)
"Well, do you... punk?"
Dirty Harry, 1971
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2724
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 9:16 pm: |
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Olivier,
I think it would have been mentioned in the police documentation if Hutch was a Jew, considering the explosiveness of the issue and the role the Jews played in the whole social context. If a person important for the investigation was a Jew, it seems to have been mentioned.
All the best
G, Sweden
"Well, do you... punk?"
Dirty Harry, 1971
|
Olivier P.M.G. Donni
Sergeant
Username: Olivier
Post Number: 27
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 9:46 pm: |
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Glenn,
I try to follow Begg's logic. He concludes from Anderson's statement "the only person who ever had a good view of the murderer" that the witness should be Schwartz (since Schwartz is the only one to have seen a woman being attacked). It is why I say (according to Begg's logic) that he is the only one who saw the killer.
However, if we carry on this logic, and take Anderson's statements litterally, we should conclude that Schwartz is not "the only person who ever had a good view of the murderer" but he is "the only person who ever had a view (not necessarily good!) of the murderer".
All these strange assertions of Anderson incite me to believe that some important elements are missing so that it is very difficult to understand his point of view. Hence, I cannot completely reject the possibility that Levy was the witness.
Olivier |
Olivier P.M.G. Donni
Sergeant
Username: Olivier
Post Number: 28
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 9:50 pm: |
|
Are you sure that Hutchinson's religion would have been mentioned in the police documentation?
Again, I do not think that Hutchinson is Anderson's witness but if we discover he is Jewish...
Olivier |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2725
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 11:08 pm: |
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Hi Olivier,
Ah yes, now I get it!
Sorry for being a bit slow here; had to return to the book, since it seems that I hadn't paid enough attention to that part. So sorry, my mistake.
Indeed, yes I agree, he seems to base his final conclusion -- and his interpretation of Anderson's words -- on the fact that Schwartz was the only one who directly witnessed an attack.
Well, I agree, I think that is a notion that is extremely hard to buy. I certainly don't think this was what Anderson intended in his writing.
However, although that is his final conclusions -- which I find questionable -- that is not the only argument he puts forward. Begg mentions other reasons for perhaps dismissing Lawende and Levy, namely the ones I put forward above.
No court in the world would accept a witness of Lawende's character, who already in 1888 said that he could never identify the man again. Then how on Earth could he be expected to do so several years later?
And the same goes for Levy (who hardly could provide a description at all).
I agree with Begg that this just doesen't make sense.
So seen in that light, Schwartz makes more sense (although Stride may not have been a Ripper victim), since he -- although he was rather upset -- provided with a rather clear and full description and also was regarded as a serious high quality witness.
But besides the difficult issue regarding Stride's candidacy, there are also other problems with Schwartz in this context. Several sources, among them Griffith and the journalist Sims (who knew Macnaghten personally), mentions the witness in the context of Mitre Square, with would point at the fact that the witness was in fact related to the Eddowes murder and not the murder of Stride.
So, in other words, the conflict remains. The problem is: does these sources have higher credibility than the realistic possibility of Lawende or Levy being capable of coping with an identification? Because, if both of them really told the truth -- and held nothing back from the police -- they would not make very good witnesses in 1892.
That, I think, is of more concern that how Anderson's lines are interpreted.
All the best
G, Sweden
"Well, do you... punk?"
Dirty Harry, 1971
|
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2726
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 11:17 pm: |
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Olivier,
"Are you sure that Hutchinson's religion would have been mentioned in the police documentation?
Again, I do not think that Hutchinson is Anderson's witness but if we discover he is Jewish... "
Well, I think -- at least on Anderson's part -- that it was more a question of race and character type rather than religion as such.
Schwartz was mentioned as a Jew and so was Levy and Lawende, and so is practically every other person of Jewish origin relevant to the investigation. Somehow this detail seemed important to the police at the time, possibly because the area was practically littered with Jews from Eastern Europe and because of the political antisemitic delicacy of the subject.
I dont think Hutchinson was a Jew, and I have never heard that being suggested by those who have done research on him.
All the best
G, Sweden
(Message edited by Glenna on January 06, 2005)
"Well, do you... punk?"
Dirty Harry, 1971
|
Robert W. House
Inspector
Username: Robhouse
Post Number: 167
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 12:52 am: |
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Re: Woods Buildings Alley. It is important to note that Aaron Kosminski would certainly have been aware of the existence of this alley, as he lived very close by, and had in all likelihood lived in the neighborhood for many years. Also, an escape through this alley leads in the direction of Aaron Kosminski's residence, whether we take it to be Sion Square, or Greenfield street.
Rob |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1489
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 4:18 am: |
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Rob C,
Just a quick stop....gotta go court.
Re Neil...this may help.
http://casebook.org/victims/polly.crossneil.html
Monty
"I tell you I didnt do it cos I wasnt there, so dont blame me it just isnt fair....now pass the blame and dont blame me..."- John Pizer
|
Olivier P.M.G. Donni
Sergeant
Username: Olivier
Post Number: 29
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 6:23 am: |
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Glenn,
you wrote: "I have never heard that being suggested by those who have done research on him. "
Yes, but it is surprising. We know almost nothing about Hutchinson (except if we believe Knight's story).
Olivier |
Peter J. Tabord
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 6:40 am: |
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When dealing with Anderson's witness, a problem seems often to be overlooked.
_We_ (i.e. us interested folk now) don't know of anyone who 'got a good look' for certain. Schwarz for example - it is possible the attacker he saw was not the murderer (I personally would be more interested in 'pipe man' but he probably isn't the murderer either) and also it is possible Stride wasn't killed by JtR even if she was killed by the man Schwarz saw. Similar objections can be raised for any other witness.
So, either Anderson is making assumptions, not relying on facts, or he knew something (perhaps many things) we don't now know. On this basis, the witness could easily be someone now unknown to us.
It seems unlikely the whole seaside home story is a figment of someone's imagination, however. What it doesn't do is definitely lead us to JtR. It may lead to somone who Anderson 'thought he knew' was JtR based on possibly erroneous assumptions (one of the people seen by a witness actually was JtR, JtR was a Jew, Stride was killed by JtR, to name a few possibilities)
Regards
Pete |
Elise
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 6:08 pm: |
|
Hello, all. I am fairly new to this website, and also probably have not been studying these cases as long as some of you have. I have seen the pictures of the locations, and also a map before, but I am having a little trouble deciphering the map presented above while I am trying to picture what possible escape routes Jack might have used. Might anyone possibly have a more detailed map that would list more of the streets in a smaller area? |
Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 409
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 3:40 pm: |
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Hi Elise
There aren't many maps as detailed as the Ordnance Survey maps, all the streets and alleys are shown but some are not named. They were done at about 15 inches to the Mile. They did do a larger series of about a yard to the Mile, but I haven't seen one for Bucks Road. There are a series of Charles E. Goad Fire Insurance plans done, but I am not sure where these are archived. I am limited to the size I can post, so the wider the view the smaller the detail.
All the best
Rob |
Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 410
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 4:02 pm: |
|
Hi Monty
Thanks for that link, problem is no source I can find mentions his beat pattern. Bakers Row is mentioned as his furthist point. If he did come from Bakers Row, Jack was long gone as he would have bumped into Cross and Paul as they were heading towards Bakers Row. It maybe worthwhile finding Neils beat as it might narrow down Jacks escape routes.
I found that other source I mentioned and there is not much in it. It was from
'The Echo' 20 September 1888
Inspector Reid, Detective Sergeant Enright, Sergeant Goadby and other officers then worked on a slight clue given them by 'Pearly Poll'. It was not thought of much of at the time; but what was gleaned from her and other statements given by Elizabeth Allen and Eliza Cooper of 35 Dorset Street, Spitalfields, certain of the authorities have had cause to suspect a man actually living not far from Buck's Row. At present, however, there is only suspicion against him
I think I've read to much into that.
All the best
Rob |
Robert W. House
Inspector
Username: Robhouse
Post Number: 176
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 4:54 pm: |
|
Robert,
If you want to email the ordinance map (for the relevant area - whitechapel, spitalfields, stepney, etc), I can post it on my website for everyone to access/ download, whatever.
Stephen
I know you sometimes want help with this site... I could cut the map graphics into a grid, which can be downloadable by grid section. I can also write html for this which could be added to the maps section of the site.
Rob House |
Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 3196
Registered: 10-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 4:57 pm: |
|
Hi Robert -
Would love to have something like that on the site... thanks!
Stephen P. Ryder, Exec. Editor
Casebook: Jack the Ripper
|
Robert W. House
Inspector
Username: Robhouse
Post Number: 177
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 5:13 pm: |
|
Stephen,
No problem... I can do it as long as someone (like Robert Clack for example) would email me large scale scans of the ordinance map.
I could allow you to "zoom" in by clicking on a part of the map. This would be pretty low-tech, but I think it would work ok.
Rob |
Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 411
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 5:22 pm: |
|
Hi Rob H
I've got a map ready to send you. I couldn't scan the original copy I have as it is way to big to fit on my scanner, but I did a photocopy of it years ago which is good enough (it just misses out Pinchin Street and Chamber Street.
Rob C |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1490
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 9:35 am: |
|
Rob,
I see your problem.
A little light is shed by the man himself during his intest testimony.
...." Yesterday morning I was proceeding down Buck's-row, Whitechapel, going towards Brady-street. There was not a soul about. "
I would take this as a return from Bakers Row toward Brady St as Neil mentions.
Monty
"I tell you I didnt do it cos I wasnt there, so dont blame me it just isnt fair....now pass the blame and dont blame me..."- John Pizer
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Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 414
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 1:43 pm: |
|
Hi Monty
Perhaps I am just being an awkward bugger, but if he was walking along Winthrop Street and turned right, around the Board School he would be walking along Buck's Row towards Brady Street.
Also parts of his beat included Whitechapel Road so he could easily have come via Court Street or Thomas Street.
Rob  |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1491
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 3:36 am: |
|
Rob,
Obviously you are absolutely correct. Nothing should be taken as read.
"The Coroner: Did you hear any noise that night?
Witness: No; I heard nothing. The farthest I had been that night was just through the Whitechapel-road and up Baker's-row. I was never far away from the spot."
Well to me this indicates he had to have covered the ground between Bucks row and Bakers row ergo, at some stage, he would have had to have returned to Bucks row area from Bakers Row.
If Winthrop St was part of Neils beat then I feel that a loop off Bucks Row onto Winthrop via Brady st the more logical.....or visca versa.. However, I know that beats were altered and the beat PC would have to take whichever route was dictaded to him by the beat Seargent, if memory serves me true, I beleive Seargent Kerby was the beat Seargent.
Of course we have Tompkins statement that Thain passed by the Slaughter House in Winthrop at around 4.15am to gather his cape. He also stated that nobody passed except "the policeman" during the night.
Firstly he doesnt mention which policeman this was and, in my way of thinking, I feel he was referring to Thain. Otherwise he would have stated which PC or a different (maybe 'another' in his words) PC. However, that said, my experience with witnesses shows to me that such assumptions shouldnt excepted.....unfortunately.
Secondly, Only Neil, Thain and Mizen were on duty in that particular area. Mizen was too far West so this leaves Neil or Thain. Neil doesnt mention visiting the slaughter house yet Thain does. A admittence of sorts? Of course a spanner is thrown into the works when Thain mentions the (or rather his) cape was left by a Brother officer. This points at either Neil being the Brother officer mentioned or we have a rogue (possibily off duty) PC in that area at night.
However, all that said, Tompkins still refers to the singular 'Policeman'. Indicating he only saw the one that night.
Thirdly, and rather disturbingly, the other possibilty is Winthrop was not patrolled at all. I find this unbelievable and highly unlikely. Maybe Thain dropped it off prior to his beat but the Slaughters would have been rather out of his way, especially for a J (Bethnal Green) division officer.
I know this doesnt help you at all Rob, I apologise, but it does give old Monty something to think about !
.....and he will !
Monty
"I tell you I didnt do it cos I wasnt there, so dont blame me it just isnt fair....now pass the blame and dont blame me..."- John Pizer
|
Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 419
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 4:16 am: |
|
Hi Monty
No need to apologise. Interesting points as always. I just had to delete half of what I wrote as I just spotted in Beggs the Uncensored Facts (HB p42) that P.C. passed the Slaughter House in Winthrop Street. But what I was going to say also was that Neils beat was roughly half hour, which it doesn't take to walk up and down Bucks Row or even Winthrop Street, so logically his beat would include some of the little alleys and side streets. In which case would Jack have known about them or Polly?
And I'm late for work now 
All the best
Rob |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1492
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 11:30 am: |
|
Rob,
Yeah, part of the Beat officers job would be to check public alleyways and byways. Also doors and windows along with gates and coalshutes.
Seeing as Nichols, Chapman, Stride, Eddowes and Mylett were killed in or near public or private yards (possibly not Mylett, but she did die there) I suspect that these girls would have 'utilised' such spaces. Neil would have been on the lookout for such acts as would his Brother officers.
Beat Seargents would have partrolled the area also just to maintain that the Beat officers were conducting themselves correctly and also to ascertain if there are any problems along with being a 'support' of sorts to them. Seargent Kerby was in Bucks row at approx 3.15am so one can assume he was such a Beat Seargent and was checking on Neil. Kerby would be seeing if Neil is where he should be and that he his checking what he should be checking.
....but I go on !!
Monty
"I tell you I didnt do it cos I wasnt there, so dont blame me it just isnt fair....now pass the blame and dont blame me..."- John Pizer
|
Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 420
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 3:39 pm: |
|
Hi Monty
Firstly sorry, I was in a bit of a rush this morning and forgot to re-read my post for errors, and there is a big one, which was the point of the post in the first place. It should read after the Begg mention "P.C. Neil passed the slaughter house in Winthrop Street". Which I noticed In Paul Begg's 'The Uncensored Facts' and I checked this evening, that it is in his updated 'The Facts' and also in 'The Daily Telgraph' 3 September, 'Illustrated Police News' 8 September and 'The East London Observer' 8 September, to name just three, the following info from P.c Neils inquest testimony:
The first to arrive on the scene after I had discovered the body were two men who work at a slaughter house opposite. They said they knew nothing of the affair, and that they had not heard any screams. I had previously seen the men at work. That would be about a quarter-past three, or half an hour before I found the body.
Daily Telegraph 8 September 1888.
It doesn't tell us where he came from, but at least we know he patrolled Winthrop Street.
All the best
Rob |
Robert W. House
Inspector
Username: Robhouse
Post Number: 178
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 6:27 pm: |
|
Incidentally, the 1894 Ordinance Map is now online at the following URL:
http://www.casebook.org/official_documents/map/
Thanks to Robert Clack for the Map and thanks to Stephen for putting it on the site. Hopefully this will be a useful resource for people who didint have access to high quality maps like this (like myself, for example).
You can click on any of the grid squares to enlarge that portion of the Map. Also listed are links to enlargements of the primary murder sites - the canonical 5 (sorry Glenn  ) plus Tabram, Coles, and McKenzie.
I don't know how you can get to this page in the site navigation however... I would have thought there would be a link from the Victorian London page, or the Official Documents page...?
Rob House
(Message edited by robhouse on January 11, 2005) |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1493
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 4:29 am: |
|
Rob,
Many, many thanks.....
....to both of you !!!
Monty
"I tell you I didnt do it cos I wasnt there, so dont blame me it just isnt fair....now pass the blame and dont blame me..."- John Pizer
|
NC
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 9:13 pm: |
|
Hi Phil et al,
I think your set of questions is excellent, not only to debate the specific points raised, but to try to define the critical gaps in the collective wisdom and to suggest some areas of focus within the seemingly miasmic galaxy of facts, assumptions and half truths that makes up this case.
Some others to consider:
- were there any links, however tenuous, between the "victims" other than location & socio-economic position?
- how did the murderer/s escape arrest & conviction; luck, planning, incompetance etc?
- what impact did the racial/religious/class divides within the community have on the murders?
- as mentioned by others, what was the nature of the relationship (if any) between Hutchinson and Mary Kelly? Nowadays he would be considerd a stalker!
Regards
Neale |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1822
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 9:16 am: |
|
Guys,
Im not going to start a new thread on this...
..Im just thinking here and please, its no way a theory as yet.
The majority of the victims, the so called canonical victims that is, had some part of them removed.
Mary Kelly was seen with Blotchy faced man who had on his persons a quart pail of beer.
My questions.
What does a quart pail of beer look like? Ive searched but as of yet to no avail. Maybe someone already knows this and can help Old Monty out.
Was there an inventory of items in Kellys room? I believe there was but cannot for the life of me remember where I saw it.
Now the crux questions,
In that inventory (if indeed it does exist), was there a quart pail?
And would a quart pail be shaped so a piece of kidney or heart or whatever can be placed and carried in?
I think by know y'all know where Im going with this. Its just an idea but I am interested if anyone can help.
Thanks in anticipation,
Monty
...and I said: "My name is 'Sue!' How do you do!
Now you're gonna die!!"
|
Donald Souden
Chief Inspector
Username: Supe
Post Number: 669
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 1:53 pm: |
|
Monty,
In the States the practice was known as "rushing the growler" (with no decent explanation for the term) and back then even little kids were sent off to the local to get a pail of beer for pop. All the pictures I've seen show a regular pail. You know, like a paint can with a semi-circular handle at the top and maybe a lid to stop spillage. Don't know if it was the same in Whitechapel in 1888.
Now a one quart pail doesn't provide a lot of volume, even if a little bigger to again prevent spillage. Check out a one-and-a-half or even two--quart sauce pan. But yeah, enough room for a human heart or kidney.
Can't imagine why you'd be interested; maybe planning a picnic?
Don.
"He was so bad at foreign languages he needed subtitles to watch Marcel Marceau."
|
Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2818
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 4:07 pm: |
|
Hello Monty , Don, (yes I am a gardeners world fan and also very, very sad!)
http://www.allaboutbeer.com/collect/24.3-growlers.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_unit
From what I can make out its two pints to a quart.
I guess that would be big enough?? But without an actual picture,
well I'm rambling
Jenni
ps was that any help at all?!! |
Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2821
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 4:20 pm: |
|
ps
seem to be open topped. are you suggesting the beer was a preservative?
../4920/10527.html"#C6C6B5"> |
Harry Mann
Detective Sergeant
Username: Harry
Post Number: 136
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 5:44 am: |
|
Monty,
Try a search for pail under the photo search of the major search engines.Google for one.Might be successfull. |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1823
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 6:13 am: |
|
Guys,
Found this on Harrys suggestion.
This big enough to carry a heart/kidney?
Monty
...and I said: "My name is 'Sue!' How do you do!
Now you're gonna die!!"
|
Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2824
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 3:28 pm: |
|
It's got a lid, interesting.
Jenni
ps yes you'd probably get one in there. What about all that part of Annie Chapman though, more difficult, no? |
c.d.
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 12:11 pm: |
|
I am wondering if rather than fleeing back to his home if Jack could have been going back to his place of employment. It is possible that if his workplace was deserted at those late hours and if he had a key or knew of some other way he could get in, he would have a refuge and a possible hiding place for the organs. It would be interesting to see if there are any workplaces located on possible escape routes that would be the type of place that would have employed people that used knives in their occupation. |
Gareth W
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 4:20 pm: |
|
All,
Given that one quart equals two pints and given that one could easily fit a human heart and two human kidneys into a (single) pint glass, then a quart pail would accommodate the aforementioned organs and more. Which, of course, possibly absolves Mr Blotchy-Face of being JTR.
If he were Jack, then the quart can would've allowed him plenty of scope to make off with many more organs than usual. Both kidneys and uterus, not to mention the heart, could sit comfortably in a two-pint pot by my reckoning - and with room to spare.
Armed with such a container, I don't think the *real* JTR would've resisted the opportunity. |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1831
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 10:56 am: |
|
Gareth W,
Why does this absolve BFM?
Monty
...and I said: "My name is 'Sue!' How do you do!
Now you're gonna die!!"
|
Mike the Mauler
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 2:44 pm: |
|
Gareth,
So if I had a couple of organs in my beer pail, there'd be plenty of room to top it off with Guinness? Wouldn't want the organs to be too warm though. The head of the beer would never go down.
Mike (Thinking about popping out for a steak and kidney pie just now) |
|
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