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Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1202
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 25, 2004 - 2:14 pm: | 
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Hi,
I have been pondering over the last couple of days over the amount of strength the killer must have used when overpowering the victims.
I have been drawn to the severe bruising on the faces neck and chest area, and in the case of Eddowes the same circular mark as found on others. It would appear that the killer attacked these women with incredible strength, exspecially in his arms and hands, in the case of Tabram the assailaint seemed to have a lot of stamina in the arm region to able him to stab the poor woman 39 times.
It was then that I thought of Druitt, but i was beaten to the punch, for he indeed was a sportsman, If one takes Whites description , and a similar man seen by Bowyer talking to kelly on the wednesday 7th, and add the strength factor exspecially the hands/wrist.and the intresting suicide note'Since Friday i thought i was getting like mother' [ what Friday the one before his death or friday the 9th November?] I may just premote our M Druitt to number 2 on my suspects list.
Regards Richard. |
Diana
Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 424
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 25, 2004 - 5:25 pm: |
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He had to be very strong to overpower and despatch them as quickly as he did. However, when he wanted Mary Kelly's heart, he did not have the strength to break through her rib cage, but had to tunnel upward from the abdomen. |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1328
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 9:27 am: |
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Hi Richard,
2nd prime suspect is more or less where I myself put Druitt---although in my case suspect no 1 is Mr Unknown at the moment.Young Mr Cutbush seems to have also had extra-ordinary agility and strength.And JK Stephens extra ordinary physical strength has recently been documented!
Christmas Tidings!
Natalie
Diane-that tunnelling through may have been to do with his fascination for the anatomical layout of the internal organs,
With Good Wishes!
Natalie
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Maria Giordano
Inspector
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 212
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 9:48 am: |
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Nats, I'm getting more interested in Cutbush myself.
Mags
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Phil Hill
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, December 25, 2004 - 5:58 pm: |
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I'm not sure about the strength.
If, as seems likely, he strangled the women from behind, he must have needed some strength true, but Nichols, and Eddowes (at least) were very drunk, or had been. Chapman, if not intoxicated, was ill and had said she felt weak not long before her death. Kelly may have been asleep. Once unconcious, if not dead, from throttling, the women would surely have been limp and could have been eased to the ground.
If Tabram were a JtR victim, the frenzy seemingly involved may have given a "superhuman" strength to the murderer momentarily.
On Druitt and Friday (9th) - when in my firm Druittist period - I too wondered about a connection. Now I think the understatement is just too great to be believeable.
If killing Kelly made MJD think he was like his mother, what was Anne Druitt? A slaughterwoman!!! No surely, a man realising the enormity of what he had done and what it meant in mental/sanity terms, would not have phrased himself in that way.
I think on balance, this was probably just depression speaking, but my mind is open. MJD just might be our man. But even if so, I don't think his words refer to Kelly's death.
Phil |
Si
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, December 25, 2004 - 7:45 pm: |
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One thing we must bear in mind folks is that these women were often drunk, sick, cold and malnourished. In the case of Anne Chapman there is a school of thought promoting the idea that the ripper stood behind her as to perform a sexual act and then banged her head against the wall / fence before strangling her. so it maybe that the victims were in some cases at least unable to fight him off. best wishes to all and seasons greetings |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1204
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 3:27 pm: |
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Hi,
What i intended on this thread was to determine the type of person that may have commited these murders.
It is my opinion that the murderer had a great deal of strength in his wrists hands and arms.
His grip was powerful, therefore i concluded that he was proberly used to manual activities, he may have been a labourer, a seaman, or a sportsman, he was i doubt a member of the clerical perfession, unless he excelled like druit in the game of fives.
The man oberved by Swhartz [ broad shouldered ] would fit the characteristics. exspecially the pulling of stride proberly by hand away from the yard entrance[ we should not forget the bruising on Eddowes hand which has all the hallmarks of such a man, and the remarks made by Mrs coxs neice, in which her Aunt relayed to her kelly was heard to say 'All right my love dont pull me along'
The killer was a powerful indervidual, and i would say had a immense grip.
Richard. |
Diana
Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 428
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 3:34 pm: |
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It also would have taken a certain level of strength to cut them up as fast as he did. To do the amount of anatomical damage he did in the short period of time he used. He had to hack through muscle, connective tissue, skin etc. At the center of the abdomen there is a very tough gristly area called the linea alba where all the abdominal muscles join. http://web.grcc.edu/biosci/labrev/121/lab3/~wp0002.jpg http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/cache/-140902323.htm He would have either had to cut that or the muscles to either side to get at the internal organs. Tho off the top of my head I cant think of any time he cut thru or broke bones other than to nick the vertebrae when trying to decapitate one or more of his victims. |
Phil Hill
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 6:07 pm: |
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But many men in that age might have had strong wrists, Richard, not just manual labourers.
Would not someone who rode to hounds have stromng wrists from managing the reins, or a sportsman?
Just a thought - I don't know that this approach allows us to narrow things down very much.
Phil |
Dustin Gould
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 10:38 pm: |
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It takes very little strength, to overpower someone, and essentially choke someone into unconciousness. VERY little.
For many years, I competed in "submission grappling". In this sport, chokes are completely legal, and widely used. I'm seen competitors choke out opponents, over twice their size, and in phenominal shape. Technique, applied correctly and quickly, will bring someone down in a matter of seconds. Not minutes. And will very little effort, at that. When a person panics upon feeling choked, their elevated heartrate and breathing only serves to "put their lights out faster", as they are using up oxygen at an accelerated rate. And unless you are schooled to do otherwise, this is the normal reaction to being choked. Henceforth, the more you panic, the faster you pass out. Which is what I'm guessing happened in the case of the victims.
As Si also pointed out, these were woman who were in rather, poor health. Not to mention, were intoxicated. Both of which, would only serve to work against them.
All the best,
Dustin Gould |
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