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Robert W. House
Detective Sergeant
Username: Robhouse
Post Number: 119
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 1:09 pm: |       |
I have just returned from London where I did some research at the London Metropolitan Archives on Northampton St in Finsbury. I did not find anything earth-shattering, but did find a few interesting entries, including one Thomas Murray, a lunatic in Bromley. Also, I found listings for Emma Smith and Michael Kidney.
Go to roberthouse.com/other/france/images/jtr/thomas_murray.html to read the details.
Also, I took a whole slew of photos in Whitechapel and Spitalfields. You can see them here: roberthouse.com/other/france/jtr.html
Incidentally, I was at the Met Archives searching for any other listings for anyone named Kosminski (or something like that) in Poplar, Bromley, St. Georges in the East, etc. In short I found no listings.
It was a great trip though... it was great to finally see all the places that I have read about for so long.
Rob |
Diana
Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 382
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 3:55 pm: | |
Thank you for the wonderful pic's. Did you see a lot of graffiti in Whitechapel, and was the goulston doorframe made of glazed brick? |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 291
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 4:19 pm: | |
Hi Robert,
Very interesting pictures and information of your research, thanks for posting.
Lumbago is a term I have not heard of much in recent years, but basically it is back ache.
The dictionary calls it " a rheumatic affection of the muscles or fiborous tissues in the lumbar region.
Regards
John Savage |
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 664
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 4:31 pm: | |
Robert,
Thanks much for the great photos and your research! Even with so much now online, you folks over in England are in the best position to do the hard digging.
Andy S.
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David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 593
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 4:42 pm: | |
That's a wonderful shot of St. Botolph's with the entrance to Mitre Square in the left foreground. Since I haven't been walked that ground myself, it's very helpful to see just how close it is to Mitre Square--one block. Nice work there, Robert.
Dave |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1599
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 5:12 pm: | |
Hi Robert
Many congrats on the pics and the research
Very interesting stuff indeed
All the best
Chris
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2375
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 5:36 pm: | |
Hi Robert,
Excellent stuff.
Regarding Murray, I miss a connection to him and the ability to use a knife, but otherwise an interesting character, and clearly a delusional schizofrenic. At least your research show that there were quite a few dangerous lunatics running around the streets of East End in 1887-89. The Ripper or not, very interesting characters. So congrats to a lot of interesting information.
As for the pictures, I just love this kind of stuff. Hats off. And also a nice treat that you've been so careful with finding the right spots, which is not all that easy on some of the sites.
I am especially thankful for the shots of Durward Street (Buck's Row), since I never found time to visit that one when I was in London in February. Thank God the board school,. at least, is still there. Nice shots indeed.
The most authentic one is in my view Gunthorpe Street; it makes you feel like travelling one hundred years back in time (hope you didn't miss out on the great Guinness in Klosowski's old pub "The White Hart" at the corner to the left of the entrance).
And although totally changed, Mitre Square is still giving me the chills.. brrr... with the original cobble stones and all.
Thanks again, Rob. Excellent work.
All the best
G, Sweden
(Message edited by Glenna on December 08, 2004)
"Want to buy some pegs, Dave?"
Papa Lazarou |
Robert W. House
Detective Sergeant
Username: Robhouse
Post Number: 121
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 5:49 pm: | |
Glenn,
funny you mention it, I did in fact have a guiness at the White Hart. There is a sign in there that says Chapman lived in the basement during the autumn of 1888, although I think this is not accurate... I think he actually lived there later.
Thanks to all for the comments. It was a real pleasure to walk around there and see how all the sites were related spatially. I actually was walking to Pichin street one evening, but the area seemed so seedy around Cable Street that I hightailed it out of there. So I never got a photo of the Pinchin street site. I really liked the whole area around Wentworth Street and Goulston... it still retained the seedy character. The whole Spitalfields area was quite nice actually. I found it to be rather hip and artsy.
Cheers.
Rob |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3625
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 5:52 pm: | |
Hi Rob
Great stuff - interesting about Burdett St, because Burdett Rd keeps cropping up in the case.
Robert |
Robert W. House
Detective Sergeant
Username: Robhouse
Post Number: 122
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 5:53 pm: | |
One other thing,
Just to be clear, I would not really say Murray is a real "suspect" in the case, I just thought it was a sort of interesting story. In any case, his residence is also quite a distance from Spitalfields... it is a couple miles away I think... to the east.
RH |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2376
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 6:55 pm: | |
Rob,
Ha! Good man. Nice place, isn't it? The White Hart... I sat myself down by a very small window looking out over the alley itself.
And yes, I saw the sign. There was a sign about Martha "Turner" there inside as well, saying that she had her last beer there (how they would be able to know...).
Yep, Klosowski had his barber shop in the basement a few years later, I think in 1890, but I can't swear on it.
Damn it, Rob. Your pictures and all this makes me wish I was back there again. I had a great time as well.
All the best
"Want to buy some pegs, Dave?"
Papa Lazarou |
Robert W. House
Detective Sergeant
Username: Robhouse
Post Number: 143
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 6:31 am: | |
A couple (late) responses,
John, thanks for the info on lumbago.
Diana, there was a lot of graffiti in Whitechapel, of course not in chalk, but.... I did not look closely at the Goulston Street doorframe, as I had not been following that discussion before I left.
RH |
Robert W. House
Detective Sergeant
Username: Robhouse
Post Number: 144
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 7:09 am: | |
Lumbago,
"Lumbago often occurs in younger people whose work involves physical effort and is not uncommon in people of retirement age."
Information on Lumbago Here
Unfortunately, I did not remember to write down the date of Kidney's admission to the infirmary for this. I have emailed the Met archives to try to get the date.
Rob |
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