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Dustin
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 11:37 pm: | 
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I am probably not the first to think this, but rather one in a long line, but I think that JtR being a sailor is the most plausible answer to who he was. Think about this: A sailor who had gotten VD (or something along those lines) had a small amount of justice with the CDAs (contagious disease acts), but may have been infuriated when they were repealed (maybe bitter, etc...) and I think when Begg brings to light that without one of the murders, the other 4 (as consensus have it) all fall on a day when cattle barges come in (or whatever they were). Sailors often worked on things like these and I think this is a valid point. Also, JtR was said to have very good surgical skills. Were some sailors medics trained in anatomy?
I am just pondering these things. I have recently read some of the updated JtR books and this seems to be on the brink of discussion, but not really made total. So, what are some flaws in JtR being a sailor? I mean, he at least had to be a somwehat respectable man (i.e. holding a job, possesing money). This is because he only muredered on the weekend (if you believe in the 5 victims... or 4) and he had to have money for a good sharp knife + money for the prostitutes (although I am sure not very much money for the latter) but also the clothing that they say JtR was seen in. I am just babbling, but I'd like to hear your ideas on this sailor stuff  |
Donald Souden
Inspector
Username: Supe
Post Number: 306
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 2:58 pm: |
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Dustin,
London newspapers ran stories on this theory at the same time they ran news of Mary Kelly's murder. A few weeks later Edward Charles Larkin, who worked in the statistical department of the Customs Service, began to deluge the Home Office with letters about this theory and even named suspects. The police are said to have investigated his charges and found them groundless.
As an overall theory, ascribing the murders to crew members of ships that made regular periodic stops in London, it is certainly better than some that have been advanced. It isn't held in great regard today and so the ground is somewhat less trod, but for that reason alone do some more exploring of the possibility on your own and maybe you'll come up with something.
Good luck.
Don. |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2317
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 3:11 pm: |
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Dustin,
Although I would say, that JtR having "very good surgical skill" is a fallacy or at least very much questioned today. Most scholars and researchers agree on that he may have had some anatomical knowledge, similar to that of a butcher -- which is far more probable.
JtR hardly displayed any real surgical skills.
Besides that, I agree with Don that the idea of JtR being a sailor on -- for example -- a cattle boat is one of the better theories that has appeared during this 117 years of investigation -- despite the annoying Edward Larkin's continuing harassments of the London police at the time.
Especially of interest in this context is the witness Lawende's characterization of the man he saw as having the "appearance of a sailor".
All the best
G, Sweden
(Message edited by Glenna on November 19, 2004)
"Want to buy some pegs, Dave?"
Papa Lazarou
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3507
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 5:35 pm: |
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Hi Dustin
The sailor theory is interesting, though I don't see how Jack always struck at the weekends - two of the canonical five victims were killed in the early hours of a Friday.
One advantage a sailor would have is the ability to shin over walls and fences. We don't know for sure that Jack always left the scenes via the conventional route, or even arrived there thus. 
Robert |
Howard Brown
Detective Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 122
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 6:14 pm: |
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On the contrary....
Dr.Cyril Wecht and I have been communicating about the eviscerations and soon I will be posting about his findings.
Dr.Wecht,in case you aren't aware,is perhaps the World's foremost forensic pathologist. With close to 15,000 autopsies under his belt,the man has "seen it all"...
I tend to take the word of Dr.Wecht, who HAS read the inquest reports of ALL the C5 and declares that the Eddowes murder definitely was done by the hand of someone with surgical expertise...
I sent him inquest material that is available here on Casebook along with some photos from Stewart Evans.
So....we can go on our hunches...or on the advice of a forensic master with 40 plus years behind him....
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Diana
Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 356
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 6:39 pm: |
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Arbie La Bruckman, one of the less known suspects was a sailor on a cattle boat. He butchered cattle and other sailors reported that he was sadistic about it. He was suspected in the Ripperlike killing of Carrie Brown in NYC. |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 554
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 6:54 pm: |
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Cyril Wecht. . .that's a big name. It's going to be incredibly interesting to find out what he says. Good work, Howard--I'm looking forward to it.
Cheers,
Dave |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2319
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 7:00 pm: |
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Howard,
OK, but if he reaches the conclusion that Jack needed to be a surgeon, and claims this without any doubt, then he disagrees with quite a large bunch of other experts in the same field -- regardless of his credentials.
The notion that the Ripper had the medical knowledge of a surgeon is completely unsupported -- even I, who don't have any medical experience, can see that the approach is similar to that of a butcher. I have spoken to both forensic people and butchers and they all say the same thing, that they don't believe a medical knowledge is necessary for those mutilations, but simply someone who might have some anathomical knowledge, like a butcher, and who could handle a knife.
Another important point here, is that from studying from other, more modern cases where mutilation has occurred in a similar fashion, very few of the perpetrators have had any medical knowledge at all.
Sorry, Howard.
However, I am really looking forward to his findings as well.
All the best
G, Sweden
(Message edited by Glenna on November 19, 2004)
"Want to buy some pegs, Dave?"
Papa Lazarou
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Howard Brown
Detective Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 123
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 7:20 pm: |
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Thanks Dave....Actually Jon Smyth had an idea similar to this previously,but apparently it went nowhere here.
Glenn...you stated..."The notion that the Ripper had the medical knowledge of a surgeon is completely unsupported..."
With all due respect to you,thats not exactly correct....Off the top of my head,please refer to Begg,Fido,Skinner's A-Z...on Phillips,page 350 { I cheat,Glenn!! I have that memorized !!!]
Here's what Wecht sent me a little while ago :
Mr. Howard Brown
Email:
October 28, 2004
Dear Mr. Brown:
Thank you for the book. I look forward to reading it.
I would agree that removal of a kidney "with care", i.e., dissected
from surrounding peri-renal adipose tissue would require specific medical
anatomical knowledge and experience. The kidney is located in the
retroperitoneal area and hence is not immediately visible and easily
accessible following incision into the abdominal cavity.
Sincerely yours,
Cyril H. Wecht, M.D., J.D.
CHW/km
I'm ready for another beer....How about you Davey O' ???
(Message edited by howard on November 19, 2004) |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3509
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 7:20 pm: |
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Howard, I too want to see his findings. But he has 15,000 autopsies under his belt? Yikes, sounds painful!
Robert |
Howard Brown
Detective Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 124
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 7:27 pm: |
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You ain't kidding, Robert C. !
I promise to placate them here as well as www.jtrforums.co.uk
Wecht is the pathologist,Robert,who took extreme umbrage at the criminal method in which JFK's autopsy was done. He's been called in on numerous cases that other pathologist's were "stuck" on and provided closure to them.
Believe it or not,he was totally oblivious to any of the great data that is readily available here. He told me that no one ever approached him about perusing the photos of Eddowes [ full view,not just the side view...] and the inquest material that is here at Casebook and/or in The Ultimate,by whatshisname Evans.....
Thanks for your interest.
How |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2321
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 7:39 pm: |
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Howard,
Yes, Dr Phillips was quite firm on that point in his final report, although he initially in an earlier statement stated that it would have been possible for a butcher to create the wounds.
While Phillips and (with some doubt) Gordon Brown gave the Ripper medical skills, Dr Thomas Bond and some other said that the mutilations didn't give evidence of a trained hand, and even modern experts are in disagreement.
Furthermore, it shall be noted, that Phillips himself actually was of the opinion that Eddowes vas the victim of an unskilled amateur.
Yes, I know about the placement of the kidneys, but this shall on the other hand be compared to the randomness of the mutilations (several other organs on Chapman and Eddowes were more or less chopped in pieces without any sign of skill), and the failed attempts to decapitate the victims (if that was an intentional goal).
So you see, it's not that simple.
When I said that it was unsupported I meant your claims that it more or less was a certainty! Because it sure isn't.
All the best
G, Sweden
"Want to buy some pegs, Dave?"
Papa Lazarou
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Howard Brown
Detective Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 125
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 7:49 pm: |
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I'm in total agreement with your last sentence,my friend,because like you,I am not a medical examiner....and in reality,at times,have trouble finding my own ass with two hands.
More to come from Wecht as soon as possible....
Next round is on O'Flaherty, Glenn !! Skoal ! |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2322
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 7:53 pm: |
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"in reality,at times,have trouble finding my own ass with two hands."
Ouch, that can't be good, Howard.
"Next round is on O'Flaherty, Glenn !! Skoal !"
Really?
Ah, great guy, that Dave! 
Skoal!
All the best
G, Sweden
"Want to buy some pegs, Dave?"
Papa Lazarou
|
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 555
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 8:53 pm: |
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If I'm buying, then I call for Malort (a fine delicate Swedish liquer Glenn might know).
Keep us posted, Howard.
Cheers,
Dave
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2323
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 9:19 pm: |
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Uuuuh, Dave.
Malört -- that's a bitter and strong one. Do you really like that? Works excellent for the stomach, though, especially after Christmas dinner.
I could settle for a Guinness, but OK... I'm not fuzzy...
All the best
G, Sweden
"Want to buy some pegs, Dave?"
Papa Lazarou
|
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3510
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 3:43 am: |
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Very interesting site, Howard, but if I were to start posting there as well as here, I'd never find the time to drink my tea!
Could you please ask Dr Wecht his opinion on Shannon Christopher's argument that
1. The blood was still liquid when the police and doctors entered Kelly's room.
2. The blood would have dried up if Kelly had been killed during the night.
Therefore
3. Kelly was killed after sunup.
Could you ask his opinion about point 2? Point 1 is of course a textual problem.
Robert |
Howard Brown
Detective Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 127
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 6:19 am: |
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I most certainly will,Robert.
I copied your questions down and will pass them on to him.
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Dan Norder
Inspector
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 367
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 6:21 am: |
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Howard,
The Wecht thing is all and good but he's just going by what little information the doctors wrote down, not an actual autopsy. The whole idea that the kidney was removed "with care" appears to be the major point Wecht is using to form his opinion that the Ripper had medical knowledge, while the doctors back then did not pick phrases as carefully as they do now. "With care" is a rather subjective statement, not really spoken with objective medical details. Without knowing what exactly he meant by this (especially compared to the other contemporary opinion that Eddowes was killed by someone with no skill at all!), I don't see where Wecht is coming from.
Dan Norder, editor, Ripper Notes
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2325
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 7:20 am: |
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Not to mention the fact, that Mr Wecht only have available information to base his conclusions on, that is in written form 117 years ago.
Besides the crime scene photo from Miller's Court, the other mortuary photos can't be of that much use to him, since their wounds are not visible. And Eddowes had already been stitched up, so I would say making authopsy conclusions based on this kind of sparse information must be connected with certain difficulties.
All the best
G, Sweden
"Want to buy some pegs, Dave?"
Papa Lazarou
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Howard Brown
Detective Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 128
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 7:51 am: |
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This is true,Dan and Glenn, and I agree with both your "arguments" or rather,viewpoints.
WHY I approached Wecht was that in the interim of 116 years, perhaps there was something the m.e.'s of the day possibly missed or downplayed,not out of a lack of professional acumen,but rather,due to the contemporary skills of the day.
His finding on Eddowes' kidney removal,for instance,touches on an aspect that I,at least,have not seen discussed by forensic experts or people within Ripperology at large. That being the difficulty to locate the kidney. A shochet is a shochet,not a man who deals with human kidneys,as I know you are both well aware of,not being sarcastic.
Again,I agree with you. I'm not jumping on a "Wechtmobile to the Promised Land" by any stretch....Its just that Wecht may see something else of importance to us all....
I however agree with the Doctor that it was a man versed in surgical skills in the Eddowes case,if nothing else. Thats just my honest opinion and this of course only means one guy,me,believes it....
But as always,its necessary to challenge anything either pro or con, regarding the medical skills or lack of them,in the WM.
Good points,gents...
Its too early to drink,but ah,what the hell... |
Dan Norder
Inspector
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 368
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 8:08 am: |
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Hi Howard,
Actually, the alleged difficulty in finding a kidney has been discussed on these boards as perhaps the single most reason out of all of the potential arguments why some people think the Ripper had to have had medical training. I think some of the more in-depth discussion though was on the old boards, so if you have the Casebook CD it's interesting to go through it.
Of course finding the kidney may have been a mere accident, so even talking about the assumption that the killer was looking for it can lead someone completely off the path. I wonder if Wecht assumed the kidney choice was a specific target or if he consider that it might have been something unplanned except generically to go in and get something.
I think it's another case of people noting that something happened, assuming that the Ripper had to have planned it that way, and then using that assumption to try to make other conclusions. I think we have to seriously note the alternate argument that any number of things -- graffiti, missing rings, kidney, empty matchbox, things "arranged" at Chapman's feet, Jewish clubs near both Double Event murder scenes, letter mentioning taking off an ear, grape stem, spelling of Juwes, etc. etc. -- could all just be things Jack either didn't do or didn't plan.
Dan Norder, editor, Ripper Notes
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Dan Norder
Inspector
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 369
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 8:13 am: |
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Oh, and Jack as a sailor on a cattleboat? Plausible, very plausible I'd say. Other than some exceptions (Sadler, LaBruckman, and maybe Anderson?) we haven't really got much on any of them, and I don't know that we really could for most of them. But then truth doesn't depend upon what we can easily research, only what actually gets researched does.
Dan Norder, editor, Ripper Notes
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Diana
Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 357
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 8:23 am: |
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As a newlywed bride I knew next to nothing about cooking. My first roasting chicken is long forgotten, but I know that with time I learned that it was nice to clean out that yukky purple glop behind the membrane near the spine while the chicken was still raw. Experience taught me that. I didn't know until recently that it was the kidney. I found it by looking and noticing and practicing. Nobody taught me. |
Howard Brown
Detective Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 129
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 9:09 am: |
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I think some of the more in-depth discussion though was on the old boards, so if you have the Casebook CD it's interesting to go through it.
Yep,I have it Dan...
I know you're not inferring it, but in any event for clarity's sake, Wecht wasn't given any nudging by me to investigate the inquest material, other than to tell us if he felt that the removal of Eddowes kidney had the mark of a medical man. He, in fact, asked me what he was supposed to "look for" after reading through the 70 pages I sent him. I took it upon myself to ask him for his opinion on the kidney.
Sigh...you're right. When you're right,you're right. There's such a difficult-to-refrain from tendency to "read" into anything about the case. I do so,I'll admit.
One of the reasons I strongly feel that along with your personal objectivity [ as a good example ], it is good to have peripheral non-Ripperologist people,but professionals,nonetheless,check out what we have been chewing on for years..We seem to let things drift away from time to time,without sticking to the aspect in question. Its natural,as there are so many things to explore.
I'll pop the CD in and check it out. My dumb ass probably read it before,which wouldn't surprise me.
Thanks, Dan |
Howard Brown
Detective Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 130
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 9:12 am: |
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Diana...How's about a nice chicken sandwich over here,huh? Toss some parmesan on it and I'm there !
Yes ma'am...experience is the best teacher. |
Maria Giordano
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 122
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 8:28 pm: |
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It will be very nice to have such a reknown expert's opinion on the kidney question. Of course nothing will convince most of us of anything we don't want to believe( and of course that includes me) but hearing from someone with no ax to grind should be well worth it.
Mags
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Howard Brown
Detective Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 131
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 8:43 pm: |
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"but hearing from someone with no ax to grind should be well worth it."
Thanks for getting right to the point,Ms.Giordano...thats it in a nutshell...
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Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1104
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 1:34 pm: |
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Hi Dustin
As Donald pointed out, the theory that Jack may have been a sailor working on cattle boats is one of many theories, and was promoted at the time by Edward Knight Larkins, whom Evans and Skinner have identified as an early "Ripper" theorist.
Eventually the theory was dropped when it was seen that Larkins found he had to make too many exceptions to make it feasible, i.e., the suspect, if he existed, would have had to have switched from one boat to another to have been in the East End at the right time to commit the murders. See "Edward Knight Larkins – an Early 'Ripper' Theorist" in Stewart P. Evans and Keith Skinner, The Ultimate Jack the Ripper Companion. New York, Carroll & Graf, 2000, pp. 397–417.
All the best
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
|
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2333
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 3:14 pm: |
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That is absolutely true, Chris,
But just because this theory derived from the annoying character Mr Larkins, or that it was dismissed by the police (which I think partly could be a result of they were getting tired of Larkins), doesen't mean that there can't be some truth in it.
The police investigated a number of more or less unlikely suspects, but that doesen't say that the theory as a whole is worse than any other that has emerged.
What is problematic with this theory is, could a sailor on one of these boats really be that familiar with the East End alleys and streets (in case he was brought up there, of course)?
All the best
G, Sweden
"Want to buy some pegs, Dave?"
Papa Lazarou
|
Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1105
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 6:44 pm: |
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Hi Glenn
Of course you are right that we should not necessarily dismiss any theory, and just because the police of the day dismissed the cattle boat sailor theory because of the annoying Mr. Larkins whom they ultimately began to think of as a "kook" does not mean the theory might not have something going for it.
Note though that what makes the cattle boat theory inviting is the very reason that absences while taking cattle to/from Portugal or Morocco means that the sailor was away for specified periods. But if you can't find a sailor who was away at the right times, it makes the theory less tenable.
Nonetheless I am not dismissing a sailor as a possible suspect, and one of the theories I personally find attractive is the John Anderson theory. Anderson apparently said that he was staying in Bethnal Green at the time of the murders and that he had a confederate that he worked with who held a clean coat for him so that after each murder he could slip into the coat and slide away unnoticed into the night.
All the best
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
|
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2335
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 6:58 pm: |
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Hi Chris,
Yes of course, if one doesen't find a particular named suspect, that theory -- along with some others -- is rather tough to deal with.
It would take a lot more research I guess, and some luck too, maybe.
Yes, John Anderson... I've seen his name on the list of suspects here on the boards, but I have no idea who he is. Funny, I was just curious about him the other day... (maybe I'm psychic)
Which source is he coming from? Where is he mentioned? Is he included in the JtR Ultimate Companion?
All the best
G, Sweden
(Message edited by Glenna on November 21, 2004)
"Want to buy some pegs, Dave?"
Papa Lazarou
|
Brad McGinnis
Inspector
Username: Brad
Post Number: 205
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 10:38 pm: |
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Hi Chris! I take it you and Jimmy havent found any new leads on Anderson? A shame really, he is the perfect suspect who fills every niche in question. Whats in a name? There's gotta be thousands of John Andersons in both Marine and Census records. We need witness' named Anderson and suspects with names like Isreal Swartz. Keep up the good work! Brad.
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Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1106
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 9:12 am: |
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Hi Glenn and Brad
Glenn, thanks for your interest in the John Anderson story. You can catch up on the information, in another thread, Anderson, John » Who is he?
Brad, I am afraid there is nothing new to report in regard to John Anderson. I have not had any communication with Jimmy Jenkinson since our conversation of over a year ago. What we dug up at that time about Anderson's shipmate James Brame, who related the Anderson tale to Lloyd's Weekly Newspaper in October 1896, and the ship Annie Speer is on the thread cited above.
All the best
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
|
Dustin Gould
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 11:16 pm: |
|
Hello Dustin,
The idea, that JTR was skilled with handling a knife, is one of the largest fallacies in the history of the case. Dr. Ian West, when interviewed for a Ripper documentary, said it best himself. The Ripper, while having basic anatomical knowledge (knowing where to find a kidney), just from the photographs alone, certainly didn't appear that he was used to handling a knife. "It was crudely done. Rapidly done.". Those were his words.
All the best,
Dustin Gould |
Howard Brown
Detective Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 148
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 5:45 pm: |
|
....and his words,Dustin,weren't those of Dr. Brown at Eddowes inquest. Dr.West wasn't there....Brown was....Never doubt a Brown.
Here's what Dr.Wecht sent me today...
Mr. Howard Brown
December 3, 2004
Dear Mr. Brown:
I have perused the forensic scientific literature and also checked
with colleagues regarding the question you have posed pertaining to
ritualistic type serial murders.
I have not come up with anything that closely parallels the kinds of
eviscerations that occurred in the Ripper homicides. If you have any
specific suggestions or references that you would like to call to my
attention, please do so.
I believe it can be reasonably inferred that the Ripper was
psychotic. Perhaps you should pursue that aspect of the case with a
forensic psychiatrist. I recommend a good friend and highly respected
colleague, Dr. Michael Welner. His address is:
Michael Welner, M.D.
The Forensic Panel
224 West 30th Street, Suite 806
New York, New York 10001
He is extremely busy, but he may be willing to provide you with his
psychiatric analysis regarding this matter.
With best wishes.
Sincerely,
Cyril H. Wecht, M.D., J.D.
CHW/km
Which is what I am going to pursue now.... |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 579
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 5:55 pm: |
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Hi Howard
Am I right to suppose that Dr. Wecht doesn't see a ritual element to the mutilations?
Dave |
Howard Brown
Detective Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 150
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 6:25 pm: |
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Yo Dave...Er...maybe and maybe not,depending on how this is read.
He didn't find any murders that,as you can see,paralleled the eviscerations on some of the Ripper victims. He doesn't say yes or no to a ritual connection. Now its up to me or anyone else with information on ritual murders involving eviscerations [ I have one in mind ] or a murder that may have been ritualistic, to show Wecht.
I had to be fair,Dave. I couldn't bumrush him with a theory,because he does not suffer fools or any attempts to bamboozle. He's the goods and has to be approached in steps.
Now,I'm going to work on something to show him,as the idea of a psychotic,a ssk,and a ritualist has been mentioned to him.
It may be noteworthy that he didn't mention subscribing to the Orthodox Ripperologist view of a ssk,either in part or in fact,at all. He is well aware of this type of killer and if an ssk which many say "is sitting in plain view",one may wonder why Wecht didn't see it.
Dave...More to come. Thanks for asking. Right now,admittedly he can be said to have NOT seen a ritualist...not yet at least. |
Dan Norder
Inspector
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 411
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 7:18 pm: |
|
Howard,
I don't think just because he didn't use the term "sexual serial killer" with you that it means he didn't see it. Psychotic is a term that could cover many SSKs (typically the more disorganized end). It's not like they are mutually exclusive concepts.
Dan Norder, editor, Ripper Notes
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Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 151
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 7:32 pm: |
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Dan...Actually that was just a paid statement by the People Agin' The SSK Idea@.
You're right though...he doesn't really state one theory or the other...I will ask him exactly how he meant "psychotic" when I reply to him,and if he meant to infer an ssk,first and foremost.
My original reply to Dave O'Flaherty was a rushed one...My grandsons and little girl were interrupting me every two seconds...
Anyway, Wecht read the Casebook inquest material...feels "specific medical anatomical knowledge" was in evidence...opts for a psychotic, of which type I'll ask him, and I'll contact the psychiatrist guy soon...For the Ripper and myself,as the kids are driving me nuts tonight ! |
joshua
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 9:49 am: |
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even if he was a sailor how would he have known how to gut and where to cut the gurls. i dont really think he was tho. my thinking is that he was ether a cop or a butcher. ether way i dont think we will ever truley know!!!
thanx
josh |
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