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ReeceAU
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 7:43 am: | 
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Hi All,
Im sure this would have been talked about before but it just keeps playing on my mind so i have to bring it up again!!! so im sorry 
Does anyone think more on the lines that JTR lived in Whitechapel or close by???
I mean to have had been able to kill in the areas like the back yard of 29 Hanbury st, and Mitre square where anyone could have just walked in and caught him in the act makes me wonder if the killer could have been local and known the area well enough to know the habbits and routines of the local people who lived in and around the murder sites, so when he had a likely victim in his company, he could lead them to an area where he was almost sure he could kill and not be disturbed.
What also brings me to think that JTR is local is the blood stained rag found in Goulston st.Why would a killer who has just murdered 2 victims in a matter of an hour or so,make a getaway by running deeper into whitechapel and not exit the East end altogether???
Its an old question i know,but a good one!!!
Reece G
(Geelong,Victoria,Australia) |
Paul Jackson
Inspector
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 241
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 8:49 pm: |
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Hi Reece,
Yes I think Jack was a local or had at least familiarized himself with the area before. There were and are too many nooks and crannies and sidestreets for him not to. Best regards
Paul
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Jack the Reaper
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 10:29 pm: |
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Me think he was foriner. But, like Paul said, he may have famierorized the East End.  |
Dustin Gould
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 12:47 am: |
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I believe he was a foreigner. BUT, had extremely good geographical knowledge of Whitechapel and its surroundings. Possibly because he had family there, or had lived there for a previous spell.
All the best,
Dustin Gould |
Phil Hill
Detective Sergeant
Username: Phil
Post Number: 109
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 1:20 pm: |
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None of the three posts immediately above this one cites a shred of evidence for their view.
Ok - I'll join in.
I think JtR was an Italian ice-cream salesman, who was down on whores because one once stole a cornet from his barrow.
Thus he was foreign, and new the area well from the "rounds" he made every day. He hid his knives in the ice-cart. Polly's new bonnet was his traditional Italian starw boater!! Simple.
Why - just sounded amusing. I have no evidence.
But I'll bet someone will take this seriously.
Phil
Phil |
Olivier P.M.G. Donni
Sergeant
Username: Olivier
Post Number: 30
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 6:31 am: |
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Phil,
Do you mean that Chico Marx is Jack the Ripper?
Olivier |
Maria Giordano
Inspector
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 320
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 5:30 pm: |
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No, that would be my Uncle Guido.
He sells jolly bonnets on ebay.
Mags
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Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1581
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 6:04 pm: |
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He could have been a soldier or a sailor.Or again a ship"s doctor.It wouldnt have taken him long to work out where
and when most of the action took place---where there"s a will there"s a way!
Natalie |
zxcter
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 8:56 am: |
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It's highly possible he was working graveyard shift Fridays to Sundays where he had the warehouse,building,etc all by himself.
It's more likely he lived in Whitechapel but not necessearily.He could spend time familiarizing
himself with the streets and alleys.Maybe picking
a target area(4victims-4 different areas)and
choosing escape routes.I think he has to know the early morning hour's conditions. |
zxcter
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 5:37 am: |
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On the other hand a Foreigner? possible reasons
1)Elizabeth Long's description
and to a lesser degree
2)The common sense approach ,if the killer came from a foreign or nearby city ,if he wants to find desperate(drunk) victims or prostitutes is to go to the worst streets(Dorset,Flower& Dean-4 victims)on the weekends(good-time days). |
Dustin Gould
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 10:43 pm: |
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Phil,
Nice guess. But you neglected to mention what flavors of ice cream he sold.
All the best,
Dustin Gould |
Adam Went
Inspector
Username: Adamw
Post Number: 174
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 3:57 am: |
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We of course can't be sure of this, but I do believe that he was a local of the Whitechapel/Spitalfields area, or atleast an area very close by. It makes no sense for him to travel back and forth, back and forth to kill in 1 place, if he was living in a completely different place. Plus that, knowing the area well would be an advantage to him, knowing about police patrols, where the best hiding spots were, etc. It just seems too far out that he would have such an intimate knowledge of the area he killed in without living in it or near it.
So, personally, I believe he WAS a local of Whitechapel/Spitalfields. But there's always the possibility that he lived in the West End or any other number of places.
Regards,
Adam.
"Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once."
- Kirsten Cooke,"Allo' Allo'"
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Lindsey Millar
Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 306
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 1:45 pm: |
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Adam,
It makes no sense for him to travel back and forth, back and forth to kill in 1 place, if he was living in a completely different place. Plus that, knowing the area well would be an advantage to him, knowing about police patrols, where the best hiding spots were, etc. It just seems too far out that he would have such an intimate knowledge of the area he killed in without living in it or near it.
Well said.. I have to agree with you. Particularly the part about him knowing about police patrols. (Sorry, poor grammar, but haven't yet had my morning coffee, and can't think how else to word it.)
You're quite right that we can't know anything for certain, but it does make a whole lot of sense to me that he was local, or at least knew the locality.
Off for that cup of coffee..
Lyn
"When a man grows tired of London, he grows tired of life" (or summat like that)
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Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1569
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 3:11 am: |
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Guys,
Re police patrols.
Beats were altered. Ran either left handed or right handed. This to make the assessing of beats difficult. So if Jack was watching the beats he would have to be out at change over time (9.45 - 10pm), on the night of a murder and be around for a while checking out exactly which way the beat PC is working.
Either that or he obtained the new roster from the Beat Seargent.
Regards,
Monty
I'm funny how, I mean funny, like I'm a clown? I amuse you. I make you laugh? I'm here to f**kin' amuse you? Whattya you mean funny? Funny how? How am I funny?
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Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1622
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 3:49 am: |
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Very interesting Monty!......and how could he have done that I wonder?
Nats |
Adam Went
Inspector
Username: Adamw
Post Number: 177
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 4:52 am: |
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Hi Lindsey,
You wrote:
"Well said.. I have to agree with you. Particularly the part about him knowing about police patrols. (Sorry, poor grammar, but haven't yet had my morning coffee, and can't think how else to word it.)
You're quite right that we can't know anything for certain, but it does make a whole lot of sense to me that he was local, or at least knew the locality."
Thanks for the support, Lindsey.
As you say, we can't be certain of that because we have no certain idea who he was, but it doesn't make any sense to me that he would live a fair distance away, and come to Whitechapel/Spitalfields back and forth just to commit the murders. It would also make him more vulnerable to being spotted in or around the murder sites at the times of the killings, even though outwardly he may have appeared as a normal person. So, overall, I think that him being a resident of the immediate/nearby areas of the murders is the most logical solution. Just opinions, though.
Regards,
Adam.
"Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once."
- Kirsten Cooke,"Allo' Allo'"
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Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1570
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 12:17 pm: |
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Adam,
I have lived in Whitechapel briefly.
I live in Leicester now.
I visit Whitechapel and still know how to get around there yet Im not a resident of the area, not a local.
A logical reason for commuting is victimology.
I agree that he knew the area but that doesnt automatically indicate a local person.
Monty
I'm funny how, I mean funny, like I'm a clown? I amuse you. I make you laugh? I'm here to f**kin' amuse you? Whattya you mean funny? Funny how? How am I funny?
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Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 1990
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 12:28 pm: |
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equally,I go to Coventry twice a week i could not name a sinlge shop ion Coventry city centre and if someone asked me for directions, frankly i wouldnt know!
a side note really!
Jenni
"Pick up the pieces and make them into something new, Is what we do!"
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NightOwl
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 1:05 pm: |
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While I also believe that he is a local resident, it is a very real possibility that he could be located farther away. If he was local, and seen on the streets often, that could increase the risk of someone recognizing him during a murder. If he did in fact live outside the area, it more than likely would be a great deal more difficult to recognize and remember someone you saw only once and for a fleeting moment. |
Jeff B
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 6:03 pm: |
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I think he was almost certainly a local, or at the very least someone staying in the Whitechapel/Spitalfields area during the time of the murders. I find it unlikely that he would have murdered someone in the middle of the night and then made a LONG trek back out of the area. And the Ghoulston street apron and graffiti also point towards someone staying in the area (which were found almost an HOUR after the Eddowes murder, but NOT within the first 30 minutes despite two policeman crossing the very spot they were eventually found).
I also don't think he was a foreigner OR a madman. In the Autumn of 1888 the prostitutes would have been on the lookout for ANYONE out of the ordinary. A foreigner, a well to do person, a madman, a person who was a bit too strange, etc...would have stuck out like a sore thumb. And the evidence suggests that the victims were NOT ambushed by a stranger in the shadows but were PICKED UP or soliticed by the killer under the pretense of sex. So at the very least the killer probably did not stand out in any way. In fact I would even guess that the prostitutes might have even had some reason to TRUST the killer. Perhaps he was a known 'john' in the area, was a local who they knew, or a military person (which might give them some reason to doubt he would be a killer). I base this opinion on more modern serial killers in which this was the case (Gary Ridgway, Robert Lee Yates).
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Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 1507
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 11:45 am: |
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Hi Monty,
A logical reason for commuting is victimology.
Quite. A serial killer who targets prostitutes is kind of restricted to getting his jollies where prostitutes hang out.
It's entirely possible that this is also where he normally hangs out. But this would either be a happy coincidence for him (not so for the ladies), or a deliberate choice to live/work right by the sweetie shop, despite it being surrounded by the worst poverty and filth in Christendom.
Hi Night Owl,
If he was local, and seen on the streets often, that could increase the risk of someone recognizing him during a murder. If he did in fact live outside the area, it more than likely would be a great deal more difficult to recognize and remember someone you saw only once and for a fleeting moment.
I think you have a point there. There's also the old saying about not doing it on your own doorstep.
I'm never quite sure if that's meant to suggest it's somehow less disgusting and immoral if one travels far from home turf for one's misdeeds, or the exact opposite: done for simple expediency - less chance of being recognised doing something you oughtn't to be doing, somewhere you oughtn't to be doing anything.
Love,
Caz
X
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Restless Spirit
Sergeant
Username: Judyj
Post Number: 17
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 12:48 pm: |
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Hi All
This is a very interesting conversation concerning Jack being local or otherwise. There are a lot of pros & cons for each ,local or outside. I think it is possible that he lived outside of WhiteChapel but worked there or had a business there. Maybe he did work shifts that enabled him to do his nasty deeds in the early AM hours. He may have worked at a job as a butcher or slaughterer etc, so the blood would go unnoticed or ignored. He may also have worked alone as suggested in a warehouse where his movements went unnoticed. I doubt that they punched a time clock back then.I wonder also whether or not he was a living with well off family outside of Whitchapel on a temporary basis.Perhaps a foreigner who left England after the murders for parts unknown.
Just Perhaps,maybes and conjecture but may have some creedence.
regards
Restless Spirit
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Harry Mann
Sergeant
Username: Harry
Post Number: 27
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 4:57 am: |
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Crime for the most part,is territorial.That is criminals tend to operate in an area that is familiar,and has defined limits.That is so whether it be gang related,syndicated,or of a singular nature.
Method of mobility is a vital factor,and in turn leads to the question of time.How much of a safety margin is required to ensure a safe getaway.
The whitechapel killer had the disadvantage of being on foot,so time and distance had to be given thought.To his advantage the hue and cry would have taken much time and organisation also,but his greatest threat was in being seen and recognised in close proximation to the murder site.Therefor the earlier he could reach cover, the less chance of discovery.
As this killer chose the same locality to commit his crimes and find his victims,I am of the opinion he resided in or close to Whitechapel,and not more than 10 minutes walk from any of the murder sites.
Millers Court posed problems that I think only a local would appreciate.Now I was born in the late 1920's,in a court that would double for Millers Court,though in another part of England.
There is no court as such.The area beyond the covered passage is only marginally wider than the passage itself and open to the sky.The houses around the court are small,and of the terrace type,usually two or three stories high.there are normally no garden.
The whole,from passage entrance to the courts extremities,would cover no more ground than a modest house and garden of today.In this small group of houses would live many people.The only entry or exit was through the covered passageway.Privacy was hard to maintain,and noisey neighbours a problem.However sound from the outside street was no distraction,it never seemed to penetrate the inner court area.So I write a little from experience,and my opinion is that the killer of Kelly,at least,was no chance stranger. |
ReeceAU
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 7:28 am: |
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Hi everyone!!
just wanna say its been almost a year since i first started this topic and im so glad people found it interesting and had there say on the question,"was jtr a local of the east end?" ive read most of the comments and have narrowed it all down to one thing which we can all agree on
.............JTR LIVED IN ENGLAND!!!!!
Cheers!!!!
Reece G
Geelong,Victoria,Australia |
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